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Guro Dave Gould · 10-04-2004, 09:55 PM

VT3,

Hmmm, this is getting interesting... OK so you claim to be a student of Billy Mcgrath, yes? I know that Billy and Greg have had their problems in the past, and I for one say let them resolve any problems that they have between themselves. As only each of them know the bad blood that has been trampled through in the past. Its not our place to resolve this for them. unless they choose for us too of course...

For the record Billy and Tuhon Gaje have had problems over the same issues that you are accusing Greg of having with the Pekiti-tirsia Organization. As a matter of fact not long ago (1996-1999) there was a huge negative campaign from the Philippines (Negros Occidental) against Billy`s claim of being a certified "Tuhon" in Kali Pekiti-tirsia. As Both Tuhon Gaje and Tuhon Tortal denied at that time of ever promoting him to that rank and title. According to them that title is reserved for a Pure Blood Pilipino only and not a foreign born national of another country. Does this mean that Billy is not a capable Master in Kali Pekiti-tirsia? Of course not as everyone knows that Billy has only trained with Tuhon Leo and that he is a long time recognized pillar in Kali Pekiti-tirsia.

Why do I bring this up you may ask? Because a long time ago Greg too was in good with Tuhon Gaje and had honest aspirations of growth with-in the Pekiti-tirsia family as did Billy. But Politics reared its ugly head against him as it did against Billy and many of the early Pekiti-Tirsia guys who apprenticed under Tuhon Leo in the early 70`s and 80`s in N.Y.. None of us were there when things went bad between those three so none of us can speak with precise clarity on the subject at hand. Only Tuhon Gaje, Billy and Greg can resolve the problems between them, as they are the only ones that know what the argument is about.

I think that it is honorable that you are defending the honor of your Instructor, but I think that you have chosen a battle that is not yours to fight. I also in the past have defended the Honor of my Instructor Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite fighting public challenges for him. I as well as other Students of PG Sulite have fought public challenges for his good name against young know it all punks in the past directing ill-will toward him and his good reputation. However we did this in the pilipino way with honor and respect and not on an open forum.

I will give you one challenge account of several that you can easily verify by asking the people which were present and also fighting for PG Sulites honor. Marc Denny, Ron Baliki, myself, Felix Valencia, Roger Agbulos, Arnold Noche, and Steve Tarani all were notified of a challange issued against him from a guy whom had insulted him at a seminar in ohio.

We were notified by PG Sulite to meet him at Phil Rapagnas school in Alta Dena , CA (1995) and to prepare to fight a challenge to restore his honor against this guy that had been spouting off and that PG Sulite had agreed to fly out for the challenge. The Pilipino way was that if this "Challenger" had bested any of PG Sulites best students in a fight than he would win the right to fight PG Sulite directly. If the challenger lost he were seen as not being worthy of fighting PG Sulite as he could not beat PG Sulites` best students. Among the core group who fought numerous challanges for Punong Guro Sulite no one ever got past us so PG Sulite always had his honor restored without ever having to fight for himself, at least here among those of us in the Los Angeles group.

So my advice to you is that if you want to continue your current path and aspirations of fighting Greg I say that he is a public personality and is not hard to find. It is to my understanding that he teaches on a somewhat regular basis there in your area of NY as well he has an e-mail address where he can be reached 24/7. If you are the one issuing the challange it is up to you to notify him and not throw up negative postings on a public forum that he may participate on or may not and have him get in touch with you.

If you approach him at a seminar he has the right to fight you there or give the challange to his best student, or arrange for a different date at a more idealistic location. If you beat the student that he selects than in accordance with tradition you have the right to fight him directly. I have been personally challanged several times at seminars that i`ve taught around the world but in stead of giving the fight to my best student I chose to fight them there and then myself. Each person accepting a challenge has the right to set the terms. Some will wuss out and choose to do it with gear on and place limitations and restrictions on the fight. I have always chosen to accept and fight my challenges with out gear with no restrictions using heavy kamagong. These fights often ended very quickly sometimes requiring a trip to the hospital for my opponent afterward. Sometimes it just ended with a broken hand or arm and my opponent would submit. I feel that when you challenge my honor and blemish my good name in public I will not stop short of breaking your head. Thats just me as I take challenges very serious and once my honor has been blemished only drawn blood from my accuser can cleanse my honor. Again just me...

I don`t know you VT3, but it would be nice for you to give us your name so that we know with whom we are communicating. Everyone here has come forth and posted under our actual names and for one I have nothing to hide and no reason to run. I can`t tell you what to do as you are a grown man but I feel that if you had problems with Greg you should have done this directly with him man to man via private messages and not on an open forum. Again just my opinion.

I say again and feel it worth repeating don`t get involved in politics as it will only divide and obstruct you from your goals and truest possible potential. I have heard good things about Billy Mcgrath but if all that I had to go on were a few negative words from others I would hold him in low esteem. Since I have heard many good things about him from numerous worthy sources I know that alot of the negative can be cancelled out. The same for Greg or any one else that has fallen victim to the nasty business of politics. Personally I never judge someone by what is said about them but rather I hold my judgement until I see and feel for myself first hand how they move in combat.

Never take the most popular rumors about someone without trying to find out first the whole truth from all involved. The truth can be found with good research about anything or anyone, you simply listen to both sides and then look somewhere in the middle for what actually occured. There you have it VT3, go well.

Guro Dave Gould
www.LamecoEskrima.org

10-04-2004, 09:55 PM	#93 (permalink)
Guro Dave Gould Registered User Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Los Angeles, CA. U.S.A. Posts: 91 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	VT3, Hmmm, this is getting interesting... OK so you claim to be a student of Billy Mcgrath, yes? I know that Billy and Greg have had their problems in the past, and I for one say let them resolve any problems that they have between themselves. As only each of them know the bad blood that has been trampled through in the past. Its not our place to resolve this for them. unless they choose for us too of course... For the record Billy and Tuhon Gaje have had problems over the same issues that you are accusing Greg of having with the Pekiti-tirsia Organization. As a matter of fact not long ago (1996-1999) there was a huge negative campaign from the Philippines (Negros Occidental) against Billy`s claim of being a certified "Tuhon" in Kali Pekiti-tirsia. As Both Tuhon Gaje and Tuhon Tortal denied at that time of ever promoting him to that rank and title. According to them that title is reserved for a Pure Blood Pilipino only and not a foreign born national of another country. Does this mean that Billy is not a capable Master in Kali Pekiti-tirsia? Of course not as everyone knows that Billy has only trained with Tuhon Leo and that he is a long time recognized pillar in Kali Pekiti-tirsia. Why do I bring this up you may ask? Because a long time ago Greg too was in good with Tuhon Gaje and had honest aspirations of growth with-in the Pekiti-tirsia family as did Billy. But Politics reared its ugly head against him as it did against Billy and many of the early Pekiti-Tirsia guys who apprenticed under Tuhon Leo in the early 70`s and 80`s in N.Y.. None of us were there when things went bad between those three so none of us can speak with precise clarity on the subject at hand. Only Tuhon Gaje, Billy and Greg can resolve the problems between them, as they are the only ones that know what the argument is about. I think that it is honorable that you are defending the honor of your Instructor, but I think that you have chosen a battle that is not yours to fight. I also in the past have defended the Honor of my Instructor Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite fighting public challenges for him. I as well as other Students of PG Sulite have fought public challenges for his good name against young know it all punks in the past directing ill-will toward him and his good reputation. However we did this in the pilipino way with honor and respect and not on an open forum. I will give you one challenge account of several that you can easily verify by asking the people which were present and also fighting for PG Sulites honor. Marc Denny, Ron Baliki, myself, Felix Valencia, Roger Agbulos, Arnold Noche, and Steve Tarani all were notified of a challange issued against him from a guy whom had insulted him at a seminar in ohio. We were notified by PG Sulite to meet him at Phil Rapagnas school in Alta Dena , CA (1995) and to prepare to fight a challenge to restore his honor against this guy that had been spouting off and that PG Sulite had agreed to fly out for the challenge. The Pilipino way was that if this "Challenger" had bested any of PG Sulites best students in a fight than he would win the right to fight PG Sulite directly. If the challenger lost he were seen as not being worthy of fighting PG Sulite as he could not beat PG Sulites` best students. Among the core group who fought numerous challanges for Punong Guro Sulite no one ever got past us so PG Sulite always had his honor restored without ever having to fight for himself, at least here among those of us in the Los Angeles group. So my advice to you is that if you want to continue your current path and aspirations of fighting Greg I say that he is a public personality and is not hard to find. It is to my understanding that he teaches on a somewhat regular basis there in your area of NY as well he has an e-mail address where he can be reached 24/7. If you are the one issuing the challange it is up to you to notify him and not throw up negative postings on a public forum that he may participate on or may not and have him get in touch with you. If you approach him at a seminar he has the right to fight you there or give the challange to his best student, or arrange for a different date at a more idealistic location. If you beat the student that he selects than in accordance with tradition you have the right to fight him directly. I have been personally challanged several times at seminars that i`ve taught around the world but in stead of giving the fight to my best student I chose to fight them there and then myself. Each person accepting a challenge has the right to set the terms. Some will wuss out and choose to do it with gear on and place limitations and restrictions on the fight. I have always chosen to accept and fight my challenges with out gear with no restrictions using heavy kamagong. These fights often ended very quickly sometimes requiring a trip to the hospital for my opponent afterward. Sometimes it just ended with a broken hand or arm and my opponent would submit. I feel that when you challenge my honor and blemish my good name in public I will not stop short of breaking your head. Thats just me as I take challenges very serious and once my honor has been blemished only drawn blood from my accuser can cleanse my honor. Again just me... I don`t know you VT3, but it would be nice for you to give us your name so that we know with whom we are communicating. Everyone here has come forth and posted under our actual names and for one I have nothing to hide and no reason to run. I can`t tell you what to do as you are a grown man but I feel that if you had problems with Greg you should have done this directly with him man to man via private messages and not on an open forum. Again just my opinion. I say again and feel it worth repeating don`t get involved in politics as it will only divide and obstruct you from your goals and truest possible potential. I have heard good things about Billy Mcgrath but if all that I had to go on were a few negative words from others I would hold him in low esteem. Since I have heard many good things about him from numerous worthy sources I know that alot of the negative can be cancelled out. The same for Greg or any one else that has fallen victim to the nasty business of politics. Personally I never judge someone by what is said about them but rather I hold my judgement until I see and feel for myself first hand how they move in combat. Never take the most popular rumors about someone without trying to find out first the whole truth from all involved. The truth can be found with good research about anything or anyone, you simply listen to both sides and then look somewhere in the middle for what actually occured. There you have it VT3, go well. Guro Dave Gould www.LamecoEskrima.org