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Originally Posted by EmptyneSs
wrestling has all these too. wrestlers are taught many self defense and finishing techniques that they cannot use on the mat, but are meant for the streets and real life confrontations, as well as dirty techniques.
i used to be a judoka myself. dont get me wrong, judo is an awesome art, but so is wrestling. i think plain folkstyle/freestyle/greco roman type wrestling is very underrated.
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It is MY opinion that "rough and tumble" or folk style wrestling though brutal is fairly primitive compared to the highly refined and scientific techniques of the Judo waza. The MMA is full of good wrestlers (greats) and they have their days to be sure but there's a beauty (read art) to submitting or choking out a big brutal "ground and pound" type fighter... 
The problem is the lack of experience of the modern Judoka to deal with the more aggressive and less orthadox techniques and tactics of the brawlers. Reality in training is the way to good SD. IMHO.
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"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."
James Paterson
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