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Originally Posted by Uke
Nice post, Judo Jibboo.
Keeping in mind that kyokushin is a TMA that isn't rooted in weapon skills, its hard to call it an urban combative. Most styles of karate and jujitsu in the past 50 years groomed men to be hardcore hand to hand fighters. Many men until this day believe that the measure of a man's prowess comes from his ability to win empty hand.
Of course karate has weapons, and many practitioners with high skills in using them, but if you take a look at how TMA karate was built, those were not the skills that the curriculum were built around. There are few full contact tournaments that allow weapon combat. The majority are forms competitions. And the high level weapon skills don't come until the student has reached mid-ranged black belt level.
I wrote all the above to say that just because kyokushin is hardcore karate doesn't mean that it is more than what it is. The art of the hand and foot.
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I don't disagree at all. Kyokushin is not an urban combative, which is precisely the contrast I'm getting at, but I must admit that I wasn't even thinking of weapons here. I guess the parellel to something like kyokushin or boxing in the realm of weapons would be something like the Dog Brothers. You certainly wouldn't want to be trading blows like you see them do if it were knives instead of sticks, but that element of realism is exchanged for learning to apply angles of attack and good footwork under pressure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uke
Personally, I am an admirer of the founder because of his fierce determination and commitment to his pursuit of mastery. He attained a level of conditioning and mastery that to my knowledge hasn't been duplicated since. He is the bar that you should measure kyokushin by. Oyama didn't need a head shot to win a real fight. He could break your ribs with one blow. He could break your arm if you blocked. He could break a man several ways without ever having to attack the head. I'm sure there are students out there who have approached his level, but I haven't heard of one that actually matched it.
If a kyokushin fighter actually reaches or even approaches the level of the founder, he is a weapon. Yes, he will have some habits that don't mesh well with weapon work which is the reality of urban combatives, much in the same way that former kickboxing legends have developed bad habits in the ring but turn to combatives after their career ends.
But, if a kyokushin fighter has put in the time to condition his body in the manner that Oyama did, the way he hits is very different that what most have felt before. 270 fights against other karateka, wrestlers, boxers, judoka, jujitsu and kung fu fighters, and most ended with JUST ONE punch.
IMO, true kyokushin is Oyama's way of commitment to conditioning the human body to the point where having to pick targets no longer matters. Only connecting cleanly.
First I think it should be understood that conditioning is usually a choice. Most RBSD schools don't demand that their students get in top physical shape, but they offer programs that are geared towards that end. Its up to the student to take advantage.
Sport TMA styles are competitive, which demands a higher level of athleticism. This is an obvious advantage, but not on exclusive to sport MA. Its just that competition forces competitors to raise their game, while there are RBSD schools that just enforce a strict balance of conditioning and technique.
I'm not sure I'd call what Oyama did a sport. His level of conditioning was meant to end fights, not compete in them. Seeing some kyokushin schools today doesn't reflect what Oyama did and accomplished.
The idea of one hit/one kill really doesn't apply to most schools anymore.
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I certainly don't think that Oyama's goal was to be a proficient sport fighter, but kyokushin today seems very similar to judo in practice, i.e. the sport element is a primary factor in attaining the art's higher goals.
I don't mean to get too focused on kyokushin though, boxing, judo, muay thai etc. would make equally good examples.