Quote:
Originally Posted by Uke
You've got to be kidding, right? Either there is some humor that I'm missing or maybe you're not understanding my point, which would surprise me. If you must be relatively the same size as the man you're fighting to be effective, then what you're learning is predicated upon fixed and fabricated environments. Period. If a 120lbs man couldn't defeat a 220lbs man using "system A" no matter how long and hard he trained, then "system A" isn't meant for combat. Its meant for competition where the 120lbs man can be successful fighting other 120lbs men.
Creating weight classes in events that are supposed to simulate reality sends the message that you'll always be fighting someone your size in the street. Let's see how some of the best little guys do against some of the best big guys.
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Let me be clear in case I've said some conflicting things that are causing confusion: I don't consider high level sport competition to be the pinnacle of martial arts training. Sport competition is a vehicle, just like the drills and scenarios you're talking about training in another post. I happen to consider it a
very important vehicle, but nothing more. So, sport competition will not reflect 100% the reality of the street,
and should not be expected to.
Jigoro Kano had this same idealistic approach to weight class in early Judo competition, there was none! And why not, right? Isn't judo all about being able to beat bigger, stronger guys? Yes. But how do you accomplish that? You've gotta know some tricks that they don't! Throwing a 300 pound thug or even a 300 pound martial artist from another school is very different from throwing a 300 pound fellow judoka.
It's the same in MMA. They all know and train to defend each other's tricks. It's why you hear "MMA" being spoken of like it's a style itself now. I don't know much about the history of the early UFC, but i would place my bet that the introduction of weight classes occured as a result of the shift away from style vs. style format. I know it's a hard thing for some martial artists to hear, but if
all other things are equal then the guy with a 50 pound weight advantage is going to win. To beat bigger, stronger people you have to have some tricks up your sleeve, which is pretty much percluded by the current format of MMA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uke
Creating a breed of professional athletes also lends a bullshit factor when you speak in terms of how effective a system would be for street defense. They're professional athletes!!! If you see a pro Muay Thai fighter fight a amateur karate studio student, it would be a lot like Pro's vs Joes. These men don't have to know a whole lot to beat the average man because their conditioning is so superior to the average man that they could simply wrestle an unarmed guy for 3 minutes with no submissions and the average man guy would probably pass out from sheer exhaustion.
So when you see a pro fighter using kickboxing or BJJ, you're seeing it at its highest level. You're not going to look like what you're watching. Your students aren't going to perform like what they've been led to believe you're teaching. If average people go out and street fight with MT or BJJ they'll look a lot more like Roland Payne and Christophe Leninger than Ernesto Hoost and Rigan Machado.
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Yeah, but this isn't a pro Muay Thai fighter against an amatuer karate studio student, it's pros against pros. As long as they're trained to the same level it still should be an accurate representation. It's kinda like if you've ever watched AAA ball. It's about as fun to watch as pro ball usually, cause they're all on the same level. On average, the pro Thai boxer vs. pro karateka is going to look similar to the amatuer Thai boxer vs. amatuer karateka.