Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Judo_Jibboo
Let me be clear in case I've said some conflicting things that are causing confusion: I don't consider high level sport competition to be the pinnacle of martial arts training. Sport competition is a vehicle, just like the drills and scenarios you're talking about training in another post. I happen to consider it a very important vehicle, but nothing more. So, sport competition will not reflect 100% the reality of the street, and should not be expected to.
|
Agreed. I think too much is being made of the street without actually discussing the differences. The truth is, the segregating factor between what separates street from high level sport competitions are the mindset and movements that address 3 things:
Weapons
Multiple attackers
and being constantly aware of your surroundings
Sports or more specifically sport combat take none of these three factors into consideration when building and molding a fighter. Period. They don't need to. They have fixed rules and environments that do away with the need to address those factors. So no one should expect sport to reflect even 51% reality. 50% is the physical, while the other 50% are the three mentioned factors on top of a survivors mindset vs a sport competitors mindset. They are not the same.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The_Judo_Jibboo
Jigoro Kano had this same idealistic approach to weight class in early Judo competition, there was none! And why not, right? Isn't judo all about being able to beat bigger, stronger guys? Yes. But how do you accomplish that? You've gotta know some tricks that they don't! Throwing a 300 pound thug or even a 300 pound martial artist from another school is very different from throwing a 300 pound fellow judoka.
It's the same in MMA. They all know and train to defend each other's tricks. It's why you hear "MMA" being spoken of like it's a style itself now. I don't know much about the history of the early UFC, but i would place my bet that the introduction of weight classes occured as a result of the shift away from style vs. style format. I know it's a hard thing for some martial artists to hear, but if all other things are equal then the guy with a 50 pound weight advantage is going to win. To beat bigger, stronger people you have to have some tricks up your sleeve, which is pretty much percluded by the current format of MMA.
|
Very seldom do you see a unique "trick" in NHB competition, Judo Jibboo. The fighters are becoming cookie cutter clones of each other and that's why the fights are as competitive as they are. They all thai box until the get in close enough to grapple. Then someone either gets rocked, or someone scores a takedown. That's the MMA mold that these events have created. There used to be more diversity in styles and background. Now most of the young guys are coming up from MMA gyms that teach them from jump street to fight in the MMA format. Its not that they found a set of techniques that "works", because other styles work also. They just invented a new ring style that makes the fights more competitive and pleasing to watch. That's seem to be what you were saying above. When you fight someone from your own school, its more competitive because you train the same. It will look more organized and skilled because its more of a chess match. But when you face other people who's skills and habits you are unfamiliar with, it looks sloppier and less of a chess match, and more of a melee to gain a superior position. And that's why its the unconventional NHB fighters that rule the events like Crocop, Fedor and Nogueira. They have base skills in other styles from which to draw from. And they've mastered those base skills. They didn't just crash course them like the cookie cutters. Jack of all trades/master of none.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The_Judo_Jibboo
Yeah, but this isn't a pro Muay Thai fighter against an amatuer karate studio student, it's pros against pros. As long as they're trained to the same level it still should be an accurate representation. It's kinda like if you've ever watched AAA ball. It's about as fun to watch as pro ball usually, cause they're all on the same level. On average, the pro Thai boxer vs. pro karateka is going to look similar to the amatuer Thai boxer vs. amatuer karateka.
|
It won't be an accurate representation. If I took two guys who have novice boxing skills, meaning a solid year of training and gave them gloves and put them in the ring, you would not get an accurate representation of what boxing offers. That's a fact. 9 times out of 10 both their footwork would be shitty, there would be little to no slipping. They would have an undeveloped sense of timing and distance. Their stances would be probably the only thing that they'd have half way decent at that point. The same would go for guys in pro shape at that point in training, except for the fact that they wouldn't fatigue half as fast, and its fatigue that leads to sloppiness. They'd be able to at least focus for longer periods of time to maintain good form and take directions because in pro level shape, your mind and body are BOTH stronger.
When people see combat sport arts performed at that level, they assume that if they take some lessons that they will be equally formidable as the men that they see on television. What they don't realize is that unless they're trained to the conditioning level of those men, their techniques won't be very effective at all. That's why the first UFC's made the switch from Joe's to Pro's. The fighting looked less sloppy using Pro's. The matches went on longer because the Pro fighters didn't exhaust as fast. They kept better form and technique because they weren't wheezing and panting. They became bout fighters, or men who fought for multiple rounds instead of who got incapacitated fastest.