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Old 04-14-2007, 03:57 AM   #25 (permalink)
Uke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jubaji View Post
Actually, all of those groups you mentioned enjoyed their greatest victories when they were at enormous numerical advantage. That's not exactly "insurmountable odds." They eventually failed despite their huge numerical advantage because they couldn't overcome a disadvantage in military technology. It happens. The Mongols failed to conquer Japan despite a huge advantage in both numbers and technology.

So...thanks for that contribution.
Basically, none of them had the gun is your statement.

And the enormous numerical advantage that you spoke of may be true, but to sweep across a continent and conquering nation after nation, those numbers represent those who weren't prepared, not the number of those who were victims in the conflicts. There weren't more Mongols than there were people all over Asia. There weren't more Zulus than there were people in Africa. There weren't more Moors than there were Europeans. This all means that the conquerors were just smart enough to make sure that there numbers were stronger from battle to battle, but there numbers were never larger overall.

The American Indian fought of Europeans for more than a century, despite having inferior weapons for most of the conflict. They, like the Zulus, won many battles despite using primitive weapons, but ultimately could not defeat an innovation in firearms that allowed for repeat fire. To fight for so long against the power of the Manifest Destiny is an incredible feat in itself.

Its interesting that the groups that I mentioned are criticized for being undone by the gun, but the Spartans never faced the gun, and the Samurai did no better against it. The difference is that the Zulus and the American Indians did in fact have victories against modern weapons and troops.

And SamuraiGuy, the Zulus did in fact eventually succumb to the superior firepower of the Europeans, but make no mistake in ever thinking that it was ever in hand to hand combat. The defeat of the Zulus was a decisive victory won by firepower, not infantry.
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