Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Yum
Some styles, on average, are more competition focused. Because of that, the average guy from that school will be a little bit better fighter than most.
The reason why the Gracies won was simple:
1. They trained to take a fight to the ground and finish it there for over 50 years in live, full-contact matches against resisting opponents, most of whom were stand up fighters.
2. Most karateka and gonng-fu guys at the time trained in a mix of point/light contact fighting and full-contact (with stops) with no or very minimal grappling.
The Gracies exploited a weakness in the more "macho" fighting styles while competiting on NHB events. Technically speaking, it is the individual that matters, as Helio Gracie, a unique individual discovered this weakness in other styles, emphasized certain ranges and attributes and made it his own, training others in a system that he developed and was a little different than traditional Japanese jujitsu.
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Not true. The Gracies have been winning for years before ever coming to America. They've won judo competitions. They've won Sambo competitions. And in all those competitions they all are adept on the ground. There is a reason why the BJJ players were winning. And you theory only addresses the UFC era of their success.
Even during the UFC era, my reasoning as to why they won still stands true no matter how explain. Regardless as to whether they exploited weakness or not, it was their training that taught them to do so.
Now out of context, you're attempting to be technical about the fact that its Helio Gracie, the individual who discovered the weakness. That semantics, but on all counts you're still wrong. Maeda was still teaching judo the way it was presented before the final Kodokan syllabus was created. There was a real heavy influence from the Fusen Ryu school of jujitsu that not only emphasized newaza, but defeated Kano and his entire school using that approach when they realized that they were outclassed using tachiwaza. Helio only used the techniques that he did because he was too weak to use the other Japanese techniques due to childhood illness, but he wasn't the first to use the newaza only approach.
Proof that its not always just the individual are the fighters who begin at other schools and become mediocre competitors. They give their all but the quality of the style and training is inferior to other schools. Once they go to another school that may fit that bit, they become champions and sometimes even legends.
The biggest most puzzling part of this all is that you've already agreed that fighters are made. If you believe that, then you have to agree that styles have a large hand in making and molding them.
Do not judge TMA just because you're not good at it
Lastly, a style is only the framework used in making a fighter. Its supposed to condition his movements and reflexes to respond intelligently and practically. If the style/system doesn't have a crucial and intricate role in making a fighter, then what does?
All attributes do is determine how they will use that style and which techniques they will depend on due to speed, strength, power, agility, and length of arm and leg.