Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Which moves?

The guillotine might be one of them I can think of off hand, but I'd like to see your list. Maybe a lapel choke?





Jiu-jitsu itself is not a sport, remember? Brazillian jiu-jitsu can be used in empty handed situations. Just like Boxing can. Both have sport sides to them; both can be used to some degree in self-defense.

Remember when Tyson got jumped a few years ago by 2 guys? Tyson took them both out without any problems without taking the fight to the ground. In another press-release, one of the attackers is reported to have pulled out a metal bar to try and stop Tyson after clearly pissing him off.

http://www.rediff.com/sports/2003/oct/01tyson.htm



Thanks, Liberty. I enjoy discussing the topic as well and respect your position on staying with your chosen art.

If you change the mindset of training and tweek a few things, I think you can turn a sport art into a combat one - why? Most sport arts were derived from killing-maiming arts. take Tae Kwon Do for instance. The USMC has documented the effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do when used by South Korean Mercenaries during Vietnam - according to reports from the USMC.

http://www.mca-marines.org/Gazette/2005/05durand.html

"In establishing the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP), Gen James L. Jones frequently recounted his observations of Korean Marines during the Vietnam War. The fact that Republic of Korea (ROK) servicemen were skilled in the Korean martial art tae kwon do was widely known, evoking respect among allies and instilling fear in the enemy. The former Commandant recalled that his own Marines envied this skill, believing the Korean Marines were the most feared adversary on the battlefield and that North Vietnamese soldiers and Viet Cong irregulars would bypass Korean units whenever possible.

Despite a long and rich martial arts history, the Korean martial arts program was in its relative infancy at the time of the Vietnam War; tae kwon do had yet to achieve its current status as a national pastime or an international sport. Nonetheless, tae kwon do was a martial art in the truest sense of the word, developed by a soldier to enhance the fighting abilities of his soldiers. By the time the first servicemen deployed to Vietnam, all branches of the Korean military had implemented martial arts training programs. Moreover, it was in Vietnam that the value of martial arts training in combat operations was conclusively demonstrated. Accordingly, the history of tae kwon do in the Korean Armed Forces provides valuable insight to American Marines as the MCMAP enters its fifth year."