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zirk · 02-21-2008, 07:34 AM

Npk9: I think that is the very fundamental difference by modern and traditional arts. The TMA strive not for the ‘ultimate’ training methods, or for dominance in the ring.

It is the same with people doing 1818 military drills with single load muskets, they do not do it to excel on a modern Warfield, but a combination of fun, interest and exercise.

I Totally agree, that forms practice is NOT the best way to train for martial artists. What forms do is help you train movement of the entire body, strengthen your body and also list various techniques used. If all you want is to beat people up, then practice krav maga, SECA system or something else, perhaps some middle way with Kun Tao.

If you walk into a club and some sifu/master/senior student starts rambling about ‘studies show that students doing form only win over students doing only sparring, so we practice form only’, I say: get the hell out of there. It is utter rubbish..

If your instructor even hints you will be a good fighter by only doing forms, get out of there. You want to be a kung fu fighter ? Fight ! there is no other way around it. It so happens that forms are a part of CMA, with the moves hidden and concealed within a little dance. Asians have much more sense of the estetic, you don’t find many English people spending 2 hours boiling a cup of tea and serving it.

That said. Most CMA with ‘real’ roots is indeed battle tested and have fully functional moves. Much have been lost with the culture revolution, and much have been watered down, so it is ‘buyer beware’. Any CMA studio claiming forms practice is the main goal should be avoided.

You train the form as part of preserving the lineage, and if you are not comfortable with that, train something else that is not TMA. For each and every move in a form, you should be shown how to apply this move. Then you select a few of those moves that fits your way of fighting, and you start practicing them. Again and again. First against willing partner, then with more resistance, then in free sparring, then you find someone else not in your club and try perform your moves on them.

The forms are not the fighting, but it is the traditional way of teaching CMA on the road to the fighting. Without it, it would not be CMA. But without any fighting, you don’t have CMA either, just powerless forms.

I’m not saying it is the best way to learn how to fight, but it is ‘a’ way. And it so happens to be the way I enjoy training. Where I train we have around 3 hour sessions, and you can chose to follow ‘belt grading’ witch is mostly forms (empty hand and weapons), special interest witch is a chosen style (mostly singular techniques, drills, application and 2 people practice on eachother), free sparring or san-shou (well, to be honest, the san-shou instructor is a thai boxer who mixes in some MMA shoots/defence, but who cares  ).

Most students do a little of everything, so we are not masters in praying mantis nor san-shou, but it is a fun way to train, you get a little full contact, a litte kung fu sparring and learn a few tricks on the way. Some are just learning to fight and go san-shou only, others are only interested in forms and do mostly tai-chi.

02-21-2008, 07:34 AM	#15 (permalink)
zirk Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 17	Npk9: I think that is the very fundamental difference by modern and traditional arts. The TMA strive not for the ‘ultimate’ training methods, or for dominance in the ring. It is the same with people doing 1818 military drills with single load muskets, they do not do it to excel on a modern Warfield, but a combination of fun, interest and exercise. I Totally agree, that forms practice is NOT the best way to train for martial artists. What forms do is help you train movement of the entire body, strengthen your body and also list various techniques used. If all you want is to beat people up, then practice krav maga, SECA system or something else, perhaps some middle way with Kun Tao. If you walk into a club and some sifu/master/senior student starts rambling about ‘studies show that students doing form only win over students doing only sparring, so we practice form only’, I say: get the hell out of there. It is utter rubbish.. If your instructor even hints you will be a good fighter by only doing forms, get out of there. You want to be a kung fu fighter ? Fight ! there is no other way around it. It so happens that forms are a part of CMA, with the moves hidden and concealed within a little dance. Asians have much more sense of the estetic, you don’t find many English people spending 2 hours boiling a cup of tea and serving it. That said. Most CMA with ‘real’ roots is indeed battle tested and have fully functional moves. Much have been lost with the culture revolution, and much have been watered down, so it is ‘buyer beware’. Any CMA studio claiming forms practice is the main goal should be avoided. You train the form as part of preserving the lineage, and if you are not comfortable with that, train something else that is not TMA. For each and every move in a form, you should be shown how to apply this move. Then you select a few of those moves that fits your way of fighting, and you start practicing them. Again and again. First against willing partner, then with more resistance, then in free sparring, then you find someone else not in your club and try perform your moves on them. The forms are not the fighting, but it is the traditional way of teaching CMA on the road to the fighting. Without it, it would not be CMA. But without any fighting, you don’t have CMA either, just powerless forms. I’m not saying it is the best way to learn how to fight, but it is ‘a’ way. And it so happens to be the way I enjoy training. Where I train we have around 3 hour sessions, and you can chose to follow ‘belt grading’ witch is mostly forms (empty hand and weapons), special interest witch is a chosen style (mostly singular techniques, drills, application and 2 people practice on eachother), free sparring or san-shou (well, to be honest, the san-shou instructor is a thai boxer who mixes in some MMA shoots/defence, but who cares  ). Most students do a little of everything, so we are not masters in praying mantis nor san-shou, but it is a fun way to train, you get a little full contact, a litte kung fu sparring and learn a few tricks on the way. Some are just learning to fight and go san-shou only, others are only interested in forms and do mostly tai-chi.