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ttruscott · 04-18-2008, 10:15 AM

I wasn't going to reply here either but I will respect the sincerity.

I did empty form tai chi and bagua for many years. By this I mean that I learned the form and applications for the techniques but I had no instruction on internal methods nor how it was different from karate.

In fact, we were doing karate (we didn't know anything else), just using a new form done slowly.

I was told that bagua power came from the back (karate power comes from the stomach) but got no instruction when I asked how I should use my back.

Then I met Master Joseph Chen who taught us Hong's Practical Method.

He would do an ordinary arm bar which I was well used to from 25 years of karate and let me resist back into his push. Then he'd say he would now do it with Chen principles and with a movement so small it was hard to see, I'd pop or fly out 4 or 5 feet or it felt like my elbow would break. This was when I knew he had something new.

He also taught me how to access, open and use my back in a totally new way.

He is fond of saying that if you can see what he is doing in application, it is not Chen. All his power comes from inside his body where it is hard to figure out.

That is why it looks silly when he hardly moves yet his students fly out across the room. Yet if you could feel what the student felt, you'd pop out too.

He likes to pretend it is chi power (magic) but then tells us it is all superior alignment and use of the joints, purely mechanical.

And the apps are joint breaks or bone breaks or balance upsets. Done slowly and in control and uke must launch or be broken. Done fast and strong properly against a hard hitter and something will break...

But you cannot see what it is all about in a video or during a practise. You must learn what to watch for and your teacher must let you feel his body so you can understand how he is using his muscles so differently. Trying to understand it intellectually without knowing how the muscles and joints are being worked is futile. And all the Chinese sayings are poetic pointers, not practical descriptions.

Joseph Chen is known as a fighter not a "tea drinking" health nut but not all his disciples are fighters. So, if you get a chance, attend one of his seminars or find one of his regional reps and touch hands.

There is no other way to answer your question from the perspective of the Practical Method.

For the need for proper alignment see YouTube - Push Hands Theory and Practice DVD

I know Ronnie and I know he is trying to upset Joseph but I know Joseph too and he is just playing with Ronnie for the demo:
YouTube - Chen Zhonghua and Ronnie Yee at Zitongshan

His uke here is my teacher, Gordon Muir. He gives away these small "how to's" of apps here in public:
YouTube - Power Out In Circles

04-18-2008, 10:15 AM	#9 (permalink)
ttruscott Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 44	I wasn't going to reply here either but I will respect the sincerity. I did empty form tai chi and bagua for many years. By this I mean that I learned the form and applications for the techniques but I had no instruction on internal methods nor how it was different from karate. In fact, we were doing karate (we didn't know anything else), just using a new form done slowly. I was told that bagua power came from the back (karate power comes from the stomach) but got no instruction when I asked how I should use my back. Then I met Master Joseph Chen who taught us Hong's Practical Method. He would do an ordinary arm bar which I was well used to from 25 years of karate and let me resist back into his push. Then he'd say he would now do it with Chen principles and with a movement so small it was hard to see, I'd pop or fly out 4 or 5 feet or it felt like my elbow would break. This was when I knew he had something new. He also taught me how to access, open and use my back in a totally new way. He is fond of saying that if you can see what he is doing in application, it is not Chen. All his power comes from inside his body where it is hard to figure out. That is why it looks silly when he hardly moves yet his students fly out across the room. Yet if you could feel what the student felt, you'd pop out too. He likes to pretend it is chi power (magic) but then tells us it is all superior alignment and use of the joints, purely mechanical. And the apps are joint breaks or bone breaks or balance upsets. Done slowly and in control and uke must launch or be broken. Done fast and strong properly against a hard hitter and something will break... But you cannot see what it is all about in a video or during a practise. You must learn what to watch for and your teacher must let you feel his body so you can understand how he is using his muscles so differently. Trying to understand it intellectually without knowing how the muscles and joints are being worked is futile. And all the Chinese sayings are poetic pointers, not practical descriptions. Joseph Chen is known as a fighter not a "tea drinking" health nut but not all his disciples are fighters. So, if you get a chance, attend one of his seminars or find one of his regional reps and touch hands. There is no other way to answer your question from the perspective of the Practical Method. For the need for proper alignment see YouTube - Push Hands Theory and Practice DVD I know Ronnie and I know he is trying to upset Joseph but I know Joseph too and he is just playing with Ronnie for the demo: YouTube - Chen Zhonghua and Ronnie Yee at Zitongshan His uke here is my teacher, Gordon Muir. He gives away these small "how to's" of apps here in public: YouTube - Power Out In Circles __________________ "Fear, not compassion, restrains the wicked."