Quote:
Originally Posted by ttruscott
I'll try again:
As a 30 year veteran of karate, I can attest to you being almost correct here. We usually do a 'drop step' or a 'step and then hit' procedure.
BUT: is the use of the empty step the difference between external and internal? If not, so what??
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Well it's a difference in their postures. Postures or stances are defined as combinations of the arms ands legs and how they correlate to the torso. Different postures create different connections inside the body and help define the way the body generates power, something you maintain they do the same way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttruscott
All styles do things different or there would not be different styles.
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Like internal ones and external ones. Karate is the flagship of external, and Tai Chi the flagship of internal yet you seem to think you've discovered principles proving Shaolin wrong in your thirty years of training that Shaolin missed in their studies over the last several centuries. Let's not forget Karate was synthesized FROM Shaolin Kung Fu, I suspect they know more about it after 400 plus years than you do after 30.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttruscott
We are trying to work out the difference between internal and external in principle, no tin the manner of one technique or other.
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????? Techniques ARE the manifestation of your power, they are decided by how you derive power: IE how you get from point A to B decides the type of power you will generate, YOU claim Tai Chi and Karate generate power the same way, what better way to disprove that than to examine the techniques?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttruscott
So I suggest that the fact that tai chi does an empty step is not what makes it an internal style compared to the drop step of karate.
That is much too simplistic. Anyway, in some kata we actually do do an empty step so is karate partly internal?  |
First of all no one ever denied Karate was partly internal, that wasn't the point, you said the only style of Tai Chi that was different than Karate was the Chens. Second the point used to illustrate (Chen's stomp and the Karate drop step) was the most glaringly obvious even to a beginner. Guess what else? The drop step and Chen stomp show Chen style is closest to Karate not farthest as you tried to claim. The point was to show that Tai Chi and Karate were different and showing the fact that Karate uses a stomp to generate power clearly shows a massive difference in principles. Showing or explaining all the subtle differences is a waste of time when you won't admit the major ones showing you're wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttruscott
Agreed in part, but, to be blunt, so what? Since empty stepping is not the definition of "internal who cares?
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Empty stepping is a MAJOR component of Internal styles, and a very minor component of Karate, empty stepping REQUIRES an empty front leg which is a HUGE difference from a Typical karate punch, with 30 years of Karate surely you understand that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttruscott
AND,
What happens to the hips once the empty foot is on the ground? A tai chi player must finish the move according to the unified body principle, right?
Does not the unified body principle tell you (in essence) to turn the hips, torso and shoulders toward the target, drive from the foot and straighten the knee all at the same time together, to provide power toward the target?
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No it does not, clearly you haven't got the slightest idea about Tai Chi principles and you're using Karate to prop up your poor grasp of the subject, which is what lead you to make the statement that Karate and Tai Chi generate power the same way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttruscott
What you might not know is that these are the exact instructions for a proper 'step and punch' in karate. So how does the unified body principle create a difference between internal tai chi and external karate?
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I am aware of it, and I'm also aware you're still trying to apply Karate principles of power generation to Tai Chi to prove your point, I'll grant you this, if you do Tai chi following the body mechanics gained from 30 years of Karate it will look and feel like Karate, that doesn't mean Tai Chi is like Karate it means your Tai Chi is incorrect at its very foundation causing YOUR Tai Chi to look and feel like Karate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttruscott
Apparently you have no experience with Shorin-ji Karate or, at least, the Shorin-ji Karate from Sensei Richard Kim, late of the Dai Nippon Butoku Kai.
He taught us this principle as a guiding principle of our style of karate. If you don't see it in other karate, oh well - that doesn't mean it is an 'internal' rather than 'external' principle.
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Apparently you don't grasp the fact that one Teacher adding principles from another art changes the art to a hybrid and if its the only Karate style that follows that line of thought it's pretty damn hardheaded to try to use that to define Karate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttruscott
But please take a look at Tak's karate in the video link provided. He follows this principle correctly as far as I can see. Perfectly. What is moving when his fist stops? Don't forget the shaking of fa-jing does not count as "moving" either.
SO,
I'm sorry to "not be convinced" but I have had almost as many years with bad tai chi as good karate. I'm sorry if my attempts to define good proper tai chi precisely in non-karate terms forces you to dig deep. I'm sure it is there - let's not just call me a fool for knowing how karate moves, ok? |
So you've have thirty years of Bad Tai Chi experience along side your 30 years of Hybrid Karate, no damn wonder you're making such ridiculous claims.