Quote:
Originally Posted by Garland Uke...although I agree with some of your conclusions...I personally think it is sort of cowardly how you've essentially called out Brewer in your first sentence as an example knowing full well he isn't a part of this arguement. Why take potshots at the guy after he got the boot? Is this how you get your final words in on him, when he can't debate his position? |
Well you're entitled to your opinion, Garland. Frankly, I never asked you or anyone how they felt about what I wrote about him, nor do I care. And for you to state that it is "cowardly" for me to write what I've written implies that it takes courage to write on an internet forum, which IMO just shows how easily people on this site can be led to lend loyalty and other noble attributes to cyberspace.
Much of what is found in this article refutes many of the statements that Brewer made during his time here. Not that its any of your business, but I chose to mention Brewer, not "call him out"(can such a thing even be done on cyberspace?) because he was looked upon as an RBSD proponent on this site, and he used that position to not-so-cleverly liken MMA's sport approach to RBSD tactics at every opportunity. This article specifically proved my point that once in the fray, a man cannot take time to calculate or plan, as seen by the slain bystander. Brewer argued that point up and down despite being told by several members that he was absolutely wrong. And he was.
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Originally Posted by Garland And as for this GEM of a statement -> "If you think you're going to wrestle or thai-box a man with a knife and his 2 friends who are also involved, then you're suicidal. "
...um...no...
I'd give them my money, plead and beg for my life...and then if it came to it, I would resolve myself to my fate, Jakie Chan. I sincerely doubt any of the "it's too deadly to practice on another person" WWII RBSD/Cestari/Nelson/Fairbairn refarbished gung-fu tactics would work any better than highly polished against a non-resisting opponent "combat" sport tactics...the result is the same...baring luck, a small miracle, or the wherewithal to get the hell out of dodge, the individual would be dead or in the hospital. |
And that's why I love you, bro. You "
sincerely" doubt, but you base that doubt on nothing but your own opinions based on severely limited experience. This article is a news article. It's not based on my opinion. It's not based on your opinion. Its based on what actually happened. When you look at the "highly polished" sport-stylings of Lee Murray, Tito Ortiz and Alex Gong, what did it get them???
The result is hardly the same, and as much as you might like to argue the semantics of your theories, the cold hard facts in this news report show that even when stabbed, a well trained RBSD practitioner lives ... and guys who "play" sports die ... or live by mercy, but most times not of their own accord. Every time you hear about a so-called MMA or MT boxer getting into it in the street against someone who really means to hurt them, they wind up dead, unconscious, stabbed or shot. In almost every instance its the same and is the rule, not the exception. We're not talking about two guys throwing punches. We're talking about real intention to cripple or kill ... and that's usually accomplished by using a weapon.
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Originally Posted by Garland Or... "what would the muay thai guy do after he was stabbed?"
...um...what would you do?
Bleed alot? Not notice immediately and then try to cover up your vitals, and then stumble off and die after the knifer runs off? Freeze up and then go into shock?
How about just keel over if the knife penetrates the spine, the heart, or the main pipelines into the heart? How about losing motor function as the person slices randomly through tendons and ligaments in your upper body and then opens you up? |
Clearly you haven't read the article that this entire discussion is based on. The man in this article is a student of one of my teachers. I would have done what he did! What would you have done? Throw muay thai kicks and hope that his friends were so dazzled by your form that they would be unable to join in? When have you been involved in real violence outside of raves or being one of two stoners fighting over the last twinkie? Maurice was sucker-punched with a knife .... and
STILL managed to disable his attacker, disable the attacker's friend and chase off the other mugger. Its ashamed that the bystander got killed, but who runs into a knife fight? How would you know what would work in that situation? You wouldn't, but I'm sure you feel comfortable writing about it because even when confronted with hard evidence you still continue to fall back on theory.
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Originally Posted by Garland Or...you use your ninja-esque reflexes to pull off the split second correct response that allows you to minimize the damage of the initial stab and subdue or kill your assailant. Who ho. Dream on. |
Umm ... aside from the "ninja-esque reflex", that's exactly what happened. You must have been high as a kite when you typed this because usually you don't appear this lost when the facts are present.
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Originally Posted by Garland Realistically, isn't a knifing is going to be defensive and involve wild slashing, or aggressive and be crashing in and thrusting a'la sewing machine...or a single stab from somebody who isn't fully committed to ending you and which may *poof* appear out of thin air when a stranger bumps into you? I mean...you're about REALITY right? Like SURVIVOR?  |
Realistically Garland, a knifing happens
just like it did in this incident. I have to say that it becomes more and more clear that you didn't read the news story in the first post. Either that, or you're challenging the facts in the newspaper because you're feeling quite a bit insecure about the time you've spent training in what your instructor
assured you would work in
any situation on the mean streets of Salt Lake City.
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Originally Posted by Garland You want to train for THOSE scenarios...track and field...or falling down and bleeding. |
The proof is in the pudding, not in your witty musings. There was a group doing the mugging, not just one person. His chances of out-running them were slim. Furthermore he didn't even get a chance to assess the situation. They were aggressive. They were armed. And they clearly had killer intentions as seen when they started off by knifing him in the abdomen. For all your talk about what would work, you've
NEVER been in a situation like that. If we read about you in the paper having been in this situation your name would appear in two places in that day's edition: First in the news story. Then in the obituaries.
Don't kid yourself. You're absolutely right about
you not having any other options except for giving them your money, pleading and begging for your life...and then if it came to it, you would resolve yourself to your own fate. If someone relied on thaiboxing and BJJ, that's about all they could do. The funny thing is that while you think that the "mighty and wise Garland!" can find a way out of this situation by diffusing it or complying ... the muggers started off by stabbing the man before words were exchanged. They had every intention of killing him. All your pleas, running tactics and compliance would all have to come after you'd already been stabbed.
Get it, spanky?
You asked what would I do? I would do what Maurice did. I would do what we were trained to do. I would survive. I wouldn't try to
tae-bo my way out with "
highly polished combat sport tactics" like you suggested. And thank you, Garland. It always makes me laugh when a Billy Blanks wannabe pretends that he can outrun criminals who usually, if nothing else, are fast on their feet from years of being chased by police or other violent criminals.
Yeah, you do that. Get stabbed in your gut or anywhere else for that matter and still manage to outrun three or four guys that have already surrounded you and have every intention of hurting you.
And you had the nerve to liken
me to "ninja-esque" bullsh!t. hahaha
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Originally Posted by Garland The problem with calling scenario training "reality" is that it's...bullshit.
You are in an environment and in a designated time with set rules and responses to a predesigned situation... you're not behind any reactionary gap, cognitively you are aware of what is going on, and you are in the correct psychological mindset. You don't have to decide NOT to engage a real person with real repercussions...and it's not a surprise.
It's about as real as an MMA match, only it's supporters have the extra pretense.
And I wouldn't have even posted on this particular thread but the hypocrisy drew me out...
narrowminded much, guy? |
Well, as you can read in the news story, everything that you say that RBSD training doesn't do ... it did for the man in this story. He didn't have to decide NOT to engage a real person as he killed the bystander who ran into range. He wasn't immediately aware of what was going on, but he was able to ascertain it split seconds before he got stabbed and was able to move and not take the stab center abdomen. He was able to draw, defend, neutralize and engage multiple attackers. He, as I always say ...
was able to execute like he practiced. He didn't use BJJ. He didn't use muay thai. He didn't use fancy flourishes with his knife. And there's a reason for that which you may never know because you're clearly held captive by your academic love for martial arts instead of being concerned why its a necessary evil in the first place.
The hypocrisy lies only in the fact that you know so little but pat yourself on the back so often for feeling like you are intimate with realities that you've never known. And then to speak with authority about situations and training that you've never experienced is beyond narrow mindedness. Its down right hubris mixed with an equal helping of ignorance.
These kinds of things happen all the time in NYC. The only reason that this particular instance was newsworthy was because the victim won, the muggers needed to be saved and a bystander died ... but make no mistake this kind of sh!t happens everyday. Victims who are RBSD practitioners win everyday in NYC. They just don't usually stick around to fill out the paperwork.
Thanks for stopping by