Thread: Mugging in NYC
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
Uke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_The_Man View Post
Hello again Uke,

As I said I didn't mean that it was too extreme to be a realistic situation, I just meant that surely there are some situations that you cannot escape no matter your training.

May be in situations where you our outnumbered and facing weapons your salvation may lie in the other things that a RBSD class may teach you like awareness and prevention etc. May be an RBSD practitioner might have more of a chance to spot the danger and run or diffuse the situation. And if it comes to a fight then as you said you will fall back on your training.
Do you see what you're doing, Dan? You've already come to the conclusion that RBSD does those things but you're holding on to the possibility that "playing tag" could be a serious and viable method of dealing with imminent death ... because that's what a man waving a knife or gun is. Make no mistakes about that. You are still writing in "maybe" when you have already seemed to understand that there are different tools for different jobs. The "maybe" is just an attempt to keep an argument alive that has no legs.

You are correct in one regard, Dan. No one has ever stated that modern RBSD creates a bullet proof shield from which you are nearly invulnerable like the Gracies have about BJJ. No one can escape every situation. However that doesn't mean that being well trained won't dramatically improve your odds. Prevention and awareness only go but so far as you should have read in this story.

RBSD is a close quarter expedient solution. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less. If it comes down to a fight you've done something wrong or relied on a sport method like muay thai or boxing to bring about a swift end. What happened in this story was a murder attempt, where the so-called victim wound up quickly neutralizing all immediate threats. That isn't a fight in the sense that you think of combat. That was a defensive execution of lethal force. Before any of the muggers could figure out what to do next they were already bleeding on the ground, hoping that help would come to save them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_The_Man View Post
I watched a very interesting programme on TV. It had a taste of commercial bullshit but had some good points too. It was called Human Weapon. It was basically about a MMA fighter and a wrestler who went round the world trying out martial arts. The most relevant one to this discussion was an episode on Krav Maga. In this episode they had a man attack the MMA guy with a rubber knife attempting to 'stab' him. As Uke said, and I agree, people who train MMA, Muay Thai etc will use this to get out of a physical and hostile situation. This clip confirmed that idea and the MMA guy tried to kickbox his way out of the situation and failed, getting 'stabbed' 11 times.

YouTube - Human Weapon Krav Maga
I've seen all of the Human Weapons, but do you notice how many young people need video clips and such to prove a point? I'm not picking on you, Dan_The_Man. I'm just saying that common sense isn't enough for this visual video generation. They need it to be validated by vid clips and tv shows. I can understand the concept of seeing it in action to put a stamp on it, but then it became a matter of actually requiring a video in order for people to be able to move forward. That's were the folly begins. But yeah ... The KM episode of Human Weapon confirmed what I have been writing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_The_Man View Post
Have a look for yourself. What it looks like to me is that he tries to keep at a distance with a front kick then when the attacker gets close he clinches! Not the best idea when your facing a guy with a knife but something that surely reflects how his 10 years of MMA training influenced his method of defending against a knife.
You'll execute how you practice. Can't say it enough. Beware of those who try and sell you on the idea that you can be a lion when you've spent your entire life training to be a lamb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_The_Man View Post
I think it confirms a very good point that Uke seems to continuously express on this forum. That MMA fighters will use their MMA to fight, be it in the ring or faced with a knife wielding attacker. MMA is not designed to equip you with the sufficient knowledge or ability to face those kinds of 'street' situations.
When you speak/write about the facts, they don't ever change. I only seem repetitive because I'm forced to repeat basic and rudimentary principles to those who continuously try to call the aforementioned lamb "lion-like".

And the point about MMA is correct Dan_The_Man, but it doesn't just apply to MMA. It applies to any TMA that refuses to modernize its principles for today's world. People aren't carrying swords, spears or riding horses anymore. Yet there are schools that require students to learn kata and forms that are based on defending against sword and spear attacks, as well as dealing with soldiers on horses.

Many people don't even realize that many of the high flying kicks in tae kwon do come from the Hwarang, who actually had to fight soldiers on horseback. Those techniques were practical back then, but who but fcuking Canadian Mounties are coming at you on horseback nowadays? The art of the Samurai sword greatly influenced kendo and aikido, but even in Japan the sword had been outlawed since the 1800's. The art of the Japanese sword is largely predicated on your commitment to your stroke. That's why aikido practitioners have fits dealing with western boxers, which is the most common method used by muggers.

The point is and has always been that one should live in the times, and in doing so he can live in reality. Those who root themselves in tradition or envelope themselves in the illusion that the police or some other agency will be there to protect us or help us have been sucked into the whole "civilized utopia" propaganda. People get killed by knife and gun shot wounds every single day. The news doesn't report every casualty because if they did, they believe that people would begin arming themselves and training for the very survival that they work so hard to convince us that we supposedly don't have to worry about. Citizens who help other citizens in violent crisis are called vigilantes and locked up. People are put on hold when they call 911. Cops are paid better than school teachers but often times wind up shooting each other. And when they do finally manage to hit a target it winds up being 40 times and the man winds up being unarmed.

Then when you get accosted by three assholes with knives and are left having to use the "politically correct" competition sports you've been practicing for years in hopes of just seeing your wife again ... and you realize then and only then that:

Your coach lied to you about you being able to "take care of yourself". So many coaches exaggerate the effectiveness of what they teach in order to keep people from looking elsewhere for their needs. They fancy themselves "one stop shops".

Your dominance in competition doesn't mean squat when your ass is on the line, because the only way you know how to nullify his efforts is by dragging him to the ground and looking for submission attempts. His two friends will have something to say about that. This doesn't just apply to MMA/BJJ guys. It also applies across the board to traditional martial artists, who also revert back to toughmen once they get hit.

All your sparring and endurance training won't stop the adrenaline rush from exhausting you within a minute or two.

And in the end, when people reflect on how it was explained to them that what they practice does not equip them to end an altercation quickly like the one in the news story, they can no longer pretend that they didn't know better.
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