Mr. Poopy,
I'll acknowledge that he was going for a choke some of the time and that took longer than say, an arm bar or some other less well-known submission hold, because everyone protects their neck reflexively.
David,
I'll take down a bit if it will help you understand what I am talking about. You seem to be under the assumption that one needs to be trained in order to hurt you badly or that an untrained person would not be as dangerous as a trained one. In many cases, you are correct. However, the most dangerous people you can run into would probably laugh at you if you asked what their style was. Submission holds and the like are great, and I am a big fan of them. However, there are much faster ways to hurt someone on the ground than using "skill" on someone. Granted, these "dirty tricks" are tougher to pull on a skilled grappler, but they are nowhere near impossible. The next time you roll with a buddy, try this: every time you can place your hand across his face for a few seconds, you just took out some eyes and maybe an ear. Grab your training partner's hands--you just removed some fingers. If you train in jeans or shorts, try to get to your pocket--you may have just entered a weapon into the fight. Granted, these things take a high level of mental commitment to use (most people don't want to stab someone or rip off an ear), but the effect that doing something as primal as biting with convition has on someone can not be overstated. As a side note, Ichihara was a karate man and had no ground skills (nobody did back then).
If you would like to play to odds, then groundfighting is not what you are looking for. I can argue this point ad infinitum, but that has been done way too many times on every forum on the 'net. Nobody is going to convince anyone else of anything.
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"Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"
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