Deluxe Martial Arts Forums - View Single Post

fugetsu · 08-12-2003, 06:59 PM

Criteria for establishing "greatness:"

first- there should be a pre-modern/modern divide.

While there are many famous Central, South, South-East, and East Asian warriors with impressive battle records, establishing the "factualness" of these records may be difficult. Miyamoto Musashi, for example, is more a legend than a real, historical personality, since the actual historical records attesting to his comings and goings are quite poor. Yamaoka Tesshu, on the other hand, was active in Kendo, Shodo, Zen, and political circles, so his accomplishments can be verified using a number of different historical sources, so he is a better candidate for the list, but, his Mutoryu system bascially died with him in the late 1800s, so should he on the list? Maybe.

Post-1900 martial figures, I imagine, have easier paper trials to follow, which means we can distinguish fact from fiction (not always so easy, especially since founders of systems and the like often take on super-human characteristics--Mas Oyama and Morihei Ueshiba come to mind).

second- fight records need not be the only qualification for greatness. Influence should also be past of the package. Guru Dan Inosanto, for example, should be on the list. No other person has done so much to (master then) promote JKD/Jun Fan Gung-fu and a whole array of South-East martial arts. Other similar martial artists who have founded systems or have systematized and promoted various arts should be candidates for the list.

third- we have to decide what is meant by "martial artist," Ali definately should be on the list, a great boxer and an inspirational figure for multiple generations. What about other western fighting arts like fencing?

These are issues that should be considered-
But, setting any standards or critieria will automatically exclude some that should be included, and include some that shouldn't
Needless to say, the above list, while good for naming Kimura and the Gracie lineage, is totally lacking in the Muay Thai/Kickboxing realm. Alexio and Wilson do not deserve the recognition that someone like Fujiwara Toshio, the first non-Thai to win a Thai-stadium championship belt, does.

08-12-2003, 06:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
fugetsu Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 112	criteria Criteria for establishing "greatness:" first- there should be a pre-modern/modern divide. While there are many famous Central, South, South-East, and East Asian warriors with impressive battle records, establishing the "factualness" of these records may be difficult. Miyamoto Musashi, for example, is more a legend than a real, historical personality, since the actual historical records attesting to his comings and goings are quite poor. Yamaoka Tesshu, on the other hand, was active in Kendo, Shodo, Zen, and political circles, so his accomplishments can be verified using a number of different historical sources, so he is a better candidate for the list, but, his Mutoryu system bascially died with him in the late 1800s, so should he on the list? Maybe. Post-1900 martial figures, I imagine, have easier paper trials to follow, which means we can distinguish fact from fiction (not always so easy, especially since founders of systems and the like often take on super-human characteristics--Mas Oyama and Morihei Ueshiba come to mind). second- fight records need not be the only qualification for greatness. Influence should also be past of the package. Guru Dan Inosanto, for example, should be on the list. No other person has done so much to (master then) promote JKD/Jun Fan Gung-fu and a whole array of South-East martial arts. Other similar martial artists who have founded systems or have systematized and promoted various arts should be candidates for the list. third- we have to decide what is meant by "martial artist," Ali definately should be on the list, a great boxer and an inspirational figure for multiple generations. What about other western fighting arts like fencing? These are issues that should be considered- But, setting any standards or critieria will automatically exclude some that should be included, and include some that shouldn't Needless to say, the above list, while good for naming Kimura and the Gracie lineage, is totally lacking in the Muay Thai/Kickboxing realm. Alexio and Wilson do not deserve the recognition that someone like Fujiwara Toshio, the first non-Thai to win a Thai-stadium championship belt, does.