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Tom Yum · 11-09-2003, 05:25 PM

I think joint locking is what you are really referring to or bone fractures that are the result of a strike.

You are correct about the mechanics of joint dislocation. If you bend joints in the opposite direction of their natural bend with enough force, they will dislocate or break. They do work.

The issue that people on this board have with styles that teach joint locking is that the techniques are not practiced against training partners who resist, attempt to throw you or strike you. The only style that might be an exception is shuai jiao, which involves submissions from stand up practiced in random sparring against resisting partners whom are also trying to sweep, throw and lock your attempt.

The techniques effectiveness is about how readily you can apply it in a spontaneous situation against a resisting and striking partner.

For example, boxers are well trained in throwing fast and hard punches. They are also well trained in distancing, timing, mobility and how to take a hit. Their training partners hit them back when they try to land punches, so taking punches if necessary is part of their game. Wrestlers and Judoka train in a similar environment; they learn to throw, sweep, trip and tie up their opponent who is trying to do the same to them.

An unfortunate example of bone breaking styles not working is in UFC 6. John Matua, a black belt in the polynesian art of bone breaking fought against Tank Abbot, the seasoned boxer-street brawler. The fight lasted 17 seconds, with Tank winning by KO.

The sample clip before the fight showed Matua fighting a stationary and complient training partner who purposely tried not to strike him too hard. The training partner threw one telegraphed right hook and paused after the strike to let Matua get his takedown and joint lock. Meanwhile, the clip showed Tank Abbot shadow boxing with pretty good boxing technique throwing jabs and crosses.

If you're going to train in a joint locking or bone breaking style, do it in one that is rooted in judo, jujitsu or shuai jiao because those styles grapple alot in standup against resisting opponents.

11-09-2003, 05:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,220 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bone Breaking I think joint locking is what you are really referring to or bone fractures that are the result of a strike. You are correct about the mechanics of joint dislocation. If you bend joints in the opposite direction of their natural bend with enough force, they will dislocate or break. They do work. The issue that people on this board have with styles that teach joint locking is that the techniques are not practiced against training partners who resist, attempt to throw you or strike you. The only style that might be an exception is shuai jiao, which involves submissions from stand up practiced in random sparring against resisting partners whom are also trying to sweep, throw and lock your attempt. The techniques effectiveness is about how readily you can apply it in a spontaneous situation against a resisting and striking partner. For example, boxers are well trained in throwing fast and hard punches. They are also well trained in distancing, timing, mobility and how to take a hit. Their training partners hit them back when they try to land punches, so taking punches if necessary is part of their game. Wrestlers and Judoka train in a similar environment; they learn to throw, sweep, trip and tie up their opponent who is trying to do the same to them. An unfortunate example of bone breaking styles not working is in UFC 6. John Matua, a black belt in the polynesian art of bone breaking fought against Tank Abbot, the seasoned boxer-street brawler. The fight lasted 17 seconds, with Tank winning by KO. The sample clip before the fight showed Matua fighting a stationary and complient training partner who purposely tried not to strike him too hard. The training partner threw one telegraphed right hook and paused after the strike to let Matua get his takedown and joint lock. Meanwhile, the clip showed Tank Abbot shadow boxing with pretty good boxing technique throwing jabs and crosses. If you're going to train in a joint locking or bone breaking style, do it in one that is rooted in judo, jujitsu or shuai jiao because those styles grapple alot in standup against resisting opponents.