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Originally Posted by kid_chocolate
Thai grappling is limited. All of the guys who have trained in Thailand claim its a complete art but when I try standup grappling with them they are limited. Its due to the competition rules for Thai. I will quote you from another thread to show what I mean:
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Yes and I agree! totally, thats why I feel Muay Thai schools should keep teaching the entire art of Muay Thai, we do train as you would say in BJJ "roll" training, its different with grappling as no-one is getting seriously hurt so sparring is good.
ok I am going to some shite now....
There are lots of camps in Thailand that do not teach certain illegal ring techniques to Farang because they know that the majority of Farang are inexperienced fighters so will probably use these illegal moves in the ring, some teach the illegal techniques but usually stop 2-3 weeks before a fight so as to ingrain in the brain the legal techniques. But as you gain experience, usually once you stop fighting like a windmill and start focusing more with control, you can train in what you want and just not use what you know is illegal.
Thats what I am saying, I have been told already that a takedown we use is very similar to jujitsu. we have a fantastic hip throw that will KO him when he hits the ground, also very simple to do... I can do these no problem under duress. the difference between Muay Thai (ring sport) and the actual art of Muay Thai are slight, I agree with you totally that a stand up grappling style is powerful but I dont agree that Thai grappling or Burmese grappling is limited, we cover nearlly every part of the body in stand up grapple, from the feet to the crown of the head, from takedowns to locks, under arm passing to throws to shoves to pulls to trapping and off balance techniques, that is the art of Thai fighting, always has been. It's one of my most favorite parts of training, grappling along with the use of knees, elbows and kicks ALL of it in other words
What am I saying? Muay Thai is striking and grappling, a lot of people obviously do not know this side of Muay Thai thats why I will disagree with people when they show lack of understanding in this area of Muay Thai, it isnt for sake of arguement and I'd love to show you in person but its not possible so we have to make do with forums and talk. This apparent lack of understanding and knoweldge in other so called Muay Thai practitioners solidifies the fact that I have a very good Muay Thai teacher, its actually Muay Boran (maemai) that he teaches me.
I will cross train in Naban after doing a lot of research about it, it seems to fit very well with Thai fighting style, Naban is wrestling, pure wrestling. My first priority is finding a good damn teacher in Naban.
but dude, you really need to Stand grapple with someone trained properly in Thai standgrappling to understand how easy and effective it actually is. Mate I'd be the first person to drop Thai standup if I thought Thai standup was limited outside of ring rules. Really I would. but I hear ya when you say your mates or whoever it was said this about Thai grapple and you chucked them, I have also done that to lots of Muay Thai stylists only to have them say "hey whats that you're doing?".
I am not disagreeing with you when you say cross training is good but its not completely necessary if you do not compete in Mixed Martial Arts (I will as I said compliment my Thai arts with Naban as soon as I get the time and find a place to learn it)
.....listen, I dont go out looking fights and have been in 3 fights since 1997!!! all 3 I won using Muay Thai, says a lot for me so i am happy. Next fight.... when? probably never as I tend to get out of fights easily and if not I tend to end them quickly!
So what I am saying here is, unless you are a lawman, Bouncer (Like yourself) or working in detention centres (Prisons, juvinile DC's etc etc) then there is a need to know how to restrain an individual without hurting them too much, you as a doorman will be up against drunkards who will charge you etc so obviously cross training is off upmost importance for you! that is very understandable and acceptable, but you see the world through a doormans eyes
not everyone lives with the risks any of the above live with so many people infact do not need to cross train even though it is a fact of fighting.
Not everyone fights all the time, I mean whens the last time you were in a fight? and then ask someone else on the fourm and see the answer.
Its like saying, in america the chances of getting shot are high so I'd better go out and buy a gun! Or saying everyone has a car so I may buy one, look at your lifestyle, ask youself do I need to cross train and then do as your lifestyle dictates or if you simply just love to cross train then there is no reason why you shouldnt but simply doing it because YOU MUST is a little exaggerated....
...the majority of persons doing martial arts almost never fight, almost never get stuckin street altercations, the stresses of "knowing how to defend in a street fight" ar ebrought about by marketing and promotion, all it takes is to simply step back have a look at your own lifestyle and if it is basicly a fight free lifestyle then I wouldnt waste any sleep over not knowing how to ground grapple, know what I mean?