Punch Power Rating

[Mayhem33]

I was wondering if anybody knows what the average boxers punch rates in lbs.psi and what tyson's punch rated. I read somewhere a mule can kick and hit at 500 lbs psi and tyson was 300 lbs psi or something like that. Thanks

[Turing]

"I was wondering if anybody knows what the average boxers punch rates in lbs.psi and what tyson's punch rated. I read somewhere a mule can kick and hit at 500 lbs psi and tyson was 300 lbs psi or something like that. Thanks"

psi=pounds per square inch
lbs=pounds
lbs psi=pounds pounds per square inch

Anywho PSI or pressure is calculated with the equation Force/Surface Area

Surface Area of a boxing glove is what? Anyone wanna guess? I'll take a stab and say somewhere around 14 square inches.

300=Force/14
300*14 gives us a force of 4200 pounds
Force, in this case 4200, is equal to mass times acceleration.
4200=M*A.
F=M*A is in the units Newtons = Kilograms * Meters/Second^2
1 pound equals roughly 4.5 newtons
4200*4.5=18900
18900=M*A
I don't really know how quickly Mike Tyson's punches accelerated, nor do I know how much mass was being accelerated at that rate. However a good puncher is able to put more weight behind their punch, but obviously it won't be too much of their weight so I'm gonna guess and say he can get 1/4 of his mass moving towards his opponent, and at his prime he fought at about 220. That means 55 pounds, 1 Kilogram=2.2 pounds. That means 25 kilograms.
18900=25*A
18900/25=756
And we find that according to me Mike Tyson's punches accelerated at 756 meters per second squared. That sounds crazy but wait. Actually it sounds very crazy. That's accelerating at like 2 miles per second. But thats if he is accelerating his mass for one whole second. I once again am gonna guess and say he takes about 1/12th of a second to punch. So divide that 756 by 12 and we get a velocity of 63 meters per second. Sounds much more reasonable. Now I have managed to prove nothing more then that I have waaay too much free time on my hands. Oh well. Hope that helped put into perspective how realistic/unrealistic what you heard was. Anyone else got input or feedback cause Tyson is my favorite and I'd love to find out if anyone knows what his punching power actually was, if it was even ever tested.

P.S. I've used my physics "expertise", if anyone here has computer expertise and a file containing Mike Tyson punching, perhaps we can find out more accurately, as opposed to my guessing at everything that was unknown, and guessing one at a time leaves all the minor faults to add up and make the last value quite possibly fairly inaccurate.

[Gong Sau]

Cool post on the physics part. Adepta has a force plate set up in different configurations that's way cool and out of my price range if you want to see what you can do. Standing from a known distance, video taping your punch and then using a slo-mo analyzer should give you about the right speed (or is that velocity?) by counting the frames per second. Read once where Rocky slammed the first force plate set up used in some industry setting and registered 900 pounds. What that really means I have no idea but knowing the damage he did to guys it might be some sort of standard to go by.

[eXcessiveForce]

found the following here
http://www.getcited.org/pub/103366769


It is about building devices to measure the power of a punch and lists the force created by advance, intermediate and beginner punchers.



CONTRIBUTORS: Author: Smith, M. S.
Author: Dyson, R. J.
Author: Hale, T.
Author: Janaway, L.


JOURNAL: Journal of Sports Sciences (JSS), 18(6), ?? - ??.



YEAR: 2000
PUB TYPE: Journal Article
SUBJECT(S): DYNAMOMETRY; CONSTRUCTION; ERGOMETRY; SIMULATION; BOXING; PUNCHING; FORCE; ELITE-ATHLETE; NOVICE-ATHLETE; COMPARATIVE-STUDY; YOUNG-ADULT
DISCIPLINE: No discipline assigned
HTTP:
LANGUAGE: English
PUB ID: 103-366-769 (Last edited on 2002/02/27 18:44:58 US/Central)
SPONSOR(S):



ABSTRACT:
The development of sport-specific dynamometers is an important step towards ecological validity in analysing athlete performance. Design limitations in previous punch-measuring devices have resulted in values which may not or cannot fully reflect the force and multidirectional components in a punch. In developing this boxing dynamometer, a triaxial force measurement system and a boxing manikin interface were combined. The repeatability and accuracy of the dynamometer were assessed using simulated straight punches. Discrimination efficacy was assessed by comparison of the maximal punching force of seven elite, eight intermediate and eight novice boxers during simulated boxing, throwing straight punches. For the elite, intermediate and novice groups, respectively, the maximal straight punching forces (mean plus/minus s x) were 4800 plus/minus 227 N, 3722 plus/minus 133 N and 2381 plus/minus 116 N for the rear hand, and 2847 plus/minus 225 N, 2283 plus/minus 126 N and 1604 plus/minus 97 N for the lead hand. For all groups, maximal forces were larger for the rear than the lead hand (P < 0.001). Maximal punching force was greater in the elite than the intermediate group, and greater in the intermediate than the novice group (P<0.05). The boxing dynamometer discriminated effectively between punching performance at three standards of performance and between the punching force of the rear and lead hands.

[Tim Mousel]

That equipment from Adepta looks pretty cool. Does anyone know other resources for force measuring equipment?

Thanks,

Tim

[Gong Sau]

That's a kind of weird thing Tim as Adepta makes claims concerning their product versus other products. When I pressed their sales rep about it she couldn't name another force plate set up on the market so it makes me wonder what they're talking about in their ads. I found some physics geek pages that was a how to make a force plate set up. After all the stuff needed for recording and translating the electrical impulse is bought the Adepta set up is reasonable. I just can't afford it.

[speedbag]

There has been some research done on this subject

Donivan, J.M. 1984. A kinematic analysis of the three basic boxing punches. Unpublished thesis, Ph.D. dissertation.

I don't have a direct link to this article, but read it some time ago in our medical library. I made a few notes that say the mean average "meter per second" speed of the Left Jab was 4.1 m/s, for the Right Cross 6.4 m/s and the left Hook was 10.3 m/s. I don't remember how they measured this, but they used college student volunteers who had some preliminary training in the punching techniques. they were NOT competitive level boxers.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

for a glimpse of the diverse research done about boxing, and it's effect on the brain, hearing, vision and virtually anything else you can imagine, check out this link:

http://www-nutrition.ucdavis.edu/oly...Sports/box.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

for a few specific topics (broad, all sports) try this:

http://www.education.ed.ac.uk/isbs-arc99/

Here is a sample relevant to punching ( not boxing per se, but on topic...)

Theoretical & Applied Sports Biomechanics:
A New Approach to Evaluate Karate Punch Techniques

Hung-Ta Chiu
National Taiwan Normal University, Taipei, Taiwan
Tzyy-Yuang Shiang
National College of P. E. & Sports, Taoyuan, Taiwan

The purpose of this study was to determine reaction time, attacking speed and punch force of the well-trained Karateka in various karate punch situations using a quick-feedback approach. Twelve subjects (8 male, 4 female), the ROC National Karate Team for the 1998 Bangkok Asian Games, were asked to perform four punch techniques in this study. The four conditions are stand straight, stand reverse, forward straight and forward reverse punches. The results showed that there were no systematic differences between straight and reverse punches. However, the reaction times in forward punch (550-650 ms) were longer than stand punch (350-450 ms), and the attacking speeds in forward punch (2.7-3.0 m/s) were faster than stand punch (1.9-2.1 m/s). In this study, the punch force was expressed by the impact acceleration of the target. The punch forces of the male subjects (43-54 g) were larger than female subjects (24-39 g) as expected. The results of this test could be used as a quantitative index for coaches to improve the punch techniques of the athletes.

Keywords: karate, punch, reaction time, attacking speed, punch force, accelerometer

++++++++++++++++++++

For the scientifics in the group, scope out the International Society of Biomechanics in Sports:

http://www.uni-stuttgart.de/External...r/isbs2001.htm

( hint: on the end: "....isbs2000.html", change it to 2000, 2002 or 2003 for all those listings. ) It is amazing how specific sport research really is.

[sirius]

WHAT! 300PSI ARE YOU NUTS!!

I find it hard to belive that Mike Tyson punches as hard a an out of shape and fat 190lbs person.

The average heavywieght punch is 800lbs. Mike's punch is WELL ABOVE average. Also, these tests are taken GLOVED. There is a significant difference between gloves and bare fists.

[Middleweight]

Remember that velocity is the biggest component of impact. KE = MV2. So 12 fps = 44% harder than 10 fps, if mass is the same.

Rocky Marciano is arguably the hardest hitter the ring ever seen (No debates, please) and his right cross was measured to be like 1100 ft lbs. 45 ko in 49 fights suggest that this is enough to cold conk anyone except George Chuvalo. Rocky was just 5-11 and 190, too

Suggest if you hit the guy as he comes toward you; most likely your knockdown potential is almost double than if he is fading away

[Middleweight]

Originally Posted by sirius

WHAT! 300PSI ARE YOU NUTS!!

I find it hard to belive that Mike Tyson punches as hard a an out of shape and fat 190lbs person.

The average heavywieght punch is 800lbs. Mike's punch is WELL ABOVE average. Also, these tests are taken GLOVED. There is a significant difference between gloves and bare fists.

300 psi and your whole head would be powder. Ft Lbs is more like it.
Remember that K.E. = MV2

Sonny Liston, although he finished poorly, could hit harder than any heavyweight today. Same = Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano. Hon' mention to Ernie shavers

[Middleweight]

Originally Posted by Gong Sau

Cool post on the physics part. Adepta has a force plate set up in different configurations that's way cool and out of my price range if you want to see what you can do. Standing from a known distance, video taping your punch and then using a slo-mo analyzer should give you about the right speed (or is that velocity?) by counting the frames per second. Read once where Rocky slammed the first force plate set up used in some industry setting and registered 900 pounds. What that really means I have no idea but knowing the damage he did to guys it might be some sort of standard to go by.

I read that he registered 1100, but that was about 56 yrs ago, so who knows? Maybe he has softened a little

[Middleweight]

About Tyson: Did he have awesome punching power, or just the ability to land them solid? i.e. to find the mark before he reacts (the one that knocks you out is the one you don't see)

[Middleweight]

Originally Posted by Turing

"I was wondering if anybody knows what the average boxers punch rates in lbs.psi and what tyson's punch rated. I read somewhere a mule can kick and hit at 500 lbs psi and tyson was 300 lbs psi or something like that. Thanks"

psi=pounds per square inch
lbs=pounds
lbs psi=pounds pounds per square inch

Anywho PSI or pressure is calculated with the equation Force/Surface Area

Surface Area of a boxing glove is what? Anyone wanna guess? I'll take a stab and say somewhere around 14 square inches.

300=Force/14
300*14 gives us a force of 4200 pounds
Force, in this case 4200, is equal to mass times acceleration.
4200=M*A.
F=M*A is in the units Newtons = Kilograms * Meters/Second^2
1 pound equals roughly 4.5 newtons
4200*4.5=18900
18900=M*A
I don't really know how quickly Mike Tyson's punches accelerated, nor do I know how much mass was being accelerated at that rate. However a good puncher is able to put more weight behind their punch, but obviously it won't be too much of their weight so I'm gonna guess and say he can get 1/4 of his mass moving towards his opponent, and at his prime he fought at about 220. That means 55 pounds, 1 Kilogram=2.2 pounds. That means 25 kilograms.
18900=25*A
18900/25=756
And we find that according to me Mike Tyson's punches accelerated at 756 meters per second squared. That sounds crazy but wait. Actually it sounds very crazy. That's accelerating at like 2 miles per second. But thats if he is accelerating his mass for one whole second. I once again am gonna guess and say he takes about 1/12th of a second to punch. So divide that 756 by 12 and we get a velocity of 63 meters per second. Sounds much more reasonable. Now I have managed to prove nothing more then that I have waaay too much free time on my hands. Oh well. Hope that helped put into perspective how realistic/unrealistic what you heard was. Anyone else got input or feedback cause Tyson is my favorite and I'd love to find out if anyone knows what his punching power actually was, if it was even ever tested.

P.S. I've used my physics "expertise", if anyone here has computer expertise and a file containing Mike Tyson punching, perhaps we can find out more accurately, as opposed to my guessing at everything that was unknown, and guessing one at a time leaves all the minor faults to add up and make the last value quite possibly fairly inaccurate.

Kudos for the effort. 63m/s =70 yd/s = 210fps = 184 miles an hour. No can do. Try maybe 12 fps at impact. (that's about a 1/4 second from start to impact) So then you have 48 Ft sec 2. of course his max is about 12 and a bit so he is at the limit there. Think of a 2 x 12 that's 12 ft long hitting you on the chin at 12 fps and you are out cold.

Hope that makes a bit of sense

[Garland]

Originally Posted by Middleweight

Rocky was just 5-11 and 190, too

Physics aside...
in very qualitative terms...how were these greats able to hit so damn hard?
I mean, isn't that the real question here? What did they have that set them apart from their competitors?