Saw another street fight yesterday

[Tom Yum]

I was in the Sharpstown area (not a nice hangout place). When two guys squared off. One was a lanky guy ~ 6'3" maybe 190 and the other was stocky ~ 5'10" 210.

They exchanged body language that I could tell was leading to a fight, so I watched from a safe distance. The stocky guy shoved the taller one and the taller one started to punch, but it was a punch like he was playing a drum, kind of like a downward hammer fist (for you karate guys) but kind of like an overhand with very little body mechanics.

Anyway the punch landed on the stocky guys collarbone and he brushed it off. The stocky guy tried to tackle, but was trying to use his upper body too much (like he's trying to bench press) so the tall guy clinched and the tackle attempt didn't do anything except waste energy. They cirlced around each other while in a clinch while throwing rabbit punches at each others head and shoulders. Finally the stocky guy pushes the taller one and the tall guy trips, but gets back up where they continue to talk trash while the tall guy throws more downward drum overhands and the stocky guy throws haymakers. The punches make the expected smack noises but since they're using all arm, its only causing little welts and the punches aren't rocking any of them.

Don't get me wrong, these guys looked ferocious but they weren't hitting each other with much power, had very crude grappling skills, did not kick to the legs, did not knee, did not elbow/headbutt or dominate in the clinch.

Fights like this one and other ones I've seen reinforce my belief that stand up skills are crucial in a physical confrontation, whether its judo or kyokushin karate. I thought about the fight afterwards...how a judoka would have used the clinch for ippon seo nage or ogoshi(?) even a leg reap since the guys were allmost upright. The boxer would have closed the distance fast and thrown short rights and hooks, maybe work for an uppercut/hook combo on the seperation. The thaiboxer would have taken out the legs ASAP with low kicks, control the clinch and fire knees/elbow at will from the clinch. The karateka might have fired kick combos to soften the guy up and attempt a series of palm heel strikes, knife hands or spear hands.

[swan104]

Its like that martial arts cliche you hear all the time...

"80% of fights end up on the ground, but 100% start from stand-up"

One variable that links the ground fighting and stand up fighting is the clinch. It is good to have a familiarity with this!

Whether you learn how to do this with Muay Thai, Boxing, Judo, Wrestling etc is a different story (or thread)!!

[PocketAces]

Very interesting post Tom, thanks.

Do you ever go to Pat's boxing class on Thursdays?

[Thai Bri]

I love watching stree fights. There are a great many paper tigers out there, who look ferocious but can't fight for toffee. The trouble is you don't know who the good fighters are until its too late.

But thanks for posting. I'm going to buy myself one of these -

www.realfights.com

[chris davis 200]

There are a great many paper tigers out there, who look ferocious but can't fight for toffee. The trouble is you don't know who the good fighters are until its too late.

Too True!!

working the doors you tend to see some huge fella's (especially in a rugby town like Gloucester) But in my experience you can NEVER assume anything about anyone!

I have thrown out guys twice my size with relative ease but struggled with skilled guys (not necisarily trained, but seasoned fighters) that are smaller than me. A fighter is not determined by size or appearance, but by what they have inside.

cheers
Chris

[Gong Sau]

I like to watch street fights too as a good learning tool. Not a real big fan of getting into them if I can help it. I see most guys leaving everthing on their back leg. It's like they punch but don't commit to really hitting the guy and I don't know if it's a fear self-preservation thing or they just don't know how to get their body into a punch. Saw a couple of guys throw down about a week ago that was pretty strange. One guy came in low kind of crab like with his rear hand held high in front of his face which was tucked in tight to his lead shoulder. His lead hand was under and folded so it ran along his mid body. Got no idea what he was all about but he looked like a little tank going at the other guy. The second guy stood upright orthodox and drew back his right hand as the guy closed. Then he lifted his right-rear leg and stepped forward pretty fast. He stomped on the crab guy's lead leg about at the knee and started raining punches on crabby until the guy dropped. Don't know how bad he was hurt as someone yelled they were calling the cops so it was time for me to be about my day.

[nwtogame]

Damn thats about the best thing I've heard Chris. You hit it on the head for street fights. From my experience that is. I've worked the door too and I've been (in my younger days) a few street fight myself. Ive never had any martial arts training or may have never fought to begin with. The two guyz on the street you were talking about well.........you never know. A lot of street fights start all about reputation. In that reputation is about being tough. Sure there are no rules but they tend to sit there and just throw whatever lil aresanal they tend to have. Usually just puncinh till one of em lands a good one and knocks the other guy out. I've seen guys that have never had training mixing it up like a kickboxer too........just as the point that Chris made its all in the fight of the person. A person that wants to win bad enough is going to be very resourceful and use everything to hurt someone that they can. I think its the natural will to survive in a person. For some ppl wether it be a 150lb person or 300 things like breaking knees and elbowing was distance closed just comes natural again.....the will to survive.
***JUst my opinion

[TONGPO]

Originally Posted by Gong Sau

I see most guys leaving everthing on their back leg. It's like they punch but don't commit to really hitting the guy and I don't know if it's a fear self-preservation thing or they just don't know how to get their body into a punch. .

..its like they wanna hit the guy, but know if thy'e hitting they can be hit, see it a lot

[Leonidas]

. .

[Leonidas]

I think watching a couple of average joes have a fight can be very funny. Not in a sick way, but to watch it it is almost like children fighting. No technique, no real desire. All bravdo and trying not to look a coward, yet neither really wanting to be there. But it can also be very dangerous. When these peoplpe fight eahc other is when they will start stamping on each others heads and things just out of either sheer panic, or sheer evil. Horrible horrible stuff.

[darrianation]

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

I was in the Sharpstown area (not a nice hangout place). When two guys squared off. One was a lanky guy ~ 6'3" maybe 190 and the other was stocky ~ 5'10" 210.

They exchanged body language that I could tell was leading to a fight, so I watched from a safe distance. The stocky guy shoved the taller one and the taller one started to punch, but it was a punch like he was playing a drum, kind of like a downward hammer fist (for you karate guys) but kind of like an overhand with very little body mechanics.

Anyway the punch landed on the stocky guys collarbone and he brushed it off. The stocky guy tried to tackle, but was trying to use his upper body too much (like he's trying to bench press) so the tall guy clinched and the tackle attempt didn't do anything except waste energy. They cirlced around each other while in a clinch while throwing rabbit punches at each others head and shoulders. Finally the stocky guy pushes the taller one and the tall guy trips, but gets back up where they continue to talk trash while the tall guy throws more downward drum overhands and the stocky guy throws haymakers. The punches make the expected smack noises but since they're using all arm, its only causing little welts and the punches aren't rocking any of them.

Don't get me wrong, these guys looked ferocious but they weren't hitting each other with much power, had very crude grappling skills, did not kick to the legs, did not knee, did not elbow/headbutt or dominate in the clinch.

Fights like this one and other ones I've seen reinforce my belief that stand up skills are crucial in a physical confrontation, whether its judo or kyokushin karate. I thought about the fight afterwards...how a judoka would have used the clinch for ippon seo nage or ogoshi(?) even a leg reap since the guys were allmost upright. The boxer would have closed the distance fast and thrown short rights and hooks, maybe work for an uppercut/hook combo on the seperation. The thaiboxer would have taken out the legs ASAP with low kicks, control the clinch and fire knees/elbow at will from the clinch. The karateka might have fired kick combos to soften the guy up and attempt a series of palm heel strikes, knife hands or spear hands.

This also reaffirms my belief that natural humanistic fight strategies lay in boxing and clinching. Boxing is dueling but sooner or later in the fight someone grabs on, this is where training to dominate in the clinch really comes in handy.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by darrianation

This also reaffirms my belief that natural humanistic fight strategies lay in boxing and clinching. Boxing is dueling but sooner or later in the fight someone grabs on, this is where training to dominate in the clinch really comes in handy.

Yeah. Striking from the clinch (knees/elbows/shoulder/head) and judo style takedowns do work. I remember watching those guys and remembering how off balance and clumsy they were at times...would have been perfect for one of them to sweep the other, but neither even seem to think about or know how to sweep.

[Uncle Corny]

when a fight goes to the ground, it's the sign of one or two severly unskilled idiots. since 80 percent end up on the ground, that means 80 percent of people who engage in fights are retards.

[Rayfield]

Originally Posted by Uncle Corny

when a fight goes to the ground, it's the sign of one or two severly unskilled idiots. since 80 percent end up on the ground, that means 80 percent of people who engage in fights are retards.

Guess I'm a retard. Before I started training in MA's every fight I saw and every fight I was in went to the ground. Havent run in those circles in a long time so havent seen any good brawls lately. It's a toss up man when it comes to untrained fighters. Who the hell knows what is gonna happen. Personaly, I have noticed that if you take someone down good and hard, you can stand back up and the guy thinks twice about continuing the fight. Kinda like making the statement, "Think you can take me now?" Shows you mean business and usually avoids further fighting. Then again, some people think their tough guys and pride gets all in the way.

Rayfield