Boxing in the Ultimate Fighting Championship

[Boxing Master]

Does anyone know how many boxers have fought in the UFC, or other NHB contests. I only know of Arthur Jimmerson in UFC I, and some other boxer who fought against a ninjitsu artist in a later UFC.

To me, the boxers that I saw fight fought with too many self restrictions. They fought the match like their were in a boxing match, not a NHB match. I saw very little footwork, head/body movement, anything to denote an exceptional boxer using his skills against an opponent. Royce Gracie showed that he is beyond exceptional at his family's art, but to me Arthur lost that fight himself. I know there are alot of MA who think that boxers cannot compete in the UFC(I think they could if they truly knew how to BOX and use all their options, as other MMAs do), but I would like to know what you all think?

What do you think if a great boxer like Roy Jones Jr., or a Mike Tyson(in his prime), Muhammad Ali(before his banishment), or a Sugar Ray Robinson would do in the UFC in their respective weight brackets.

[IPON]

Botha fought and lost in PRIDE 2x (he was disqualified the first fight).

UFC one was embarrasing. But for all styles it was new and most approached it from their respective fighting tornaments.

But didn'T wear only one boxing glove what was that about.

I would like to see some good boxers in PRIDE or K1 but I doubt they could compete with teh boxing purse.

[Thai Bri]

The only way a boxer could win is to train in other styles - hence become different than a boxer!

[old skool dude]

What do you think if a great boxer like Roy Jones Jr., or a Mike Tyson(in his prime), Muhammad Ali(before his banishment), or a Sugar Ray Robinson would do in the UFC in their respective weight brackets.[/QUOTE]

I love boxers especially the ones that you've mentioned, but as far as them doing damage in the UFC.... I dont think they'd stand a chance. Boxing is a sport. The UFC although not all out street fighting, is pretty close simply because there is no time limit, you can employ other weapons and most of all, you can take it to the ground. No matter how good these guys were at evasion, it's envitable that they'd get CLINCHED at some point. Either the boxer himself would initiate a clinch instinctively when hurt or tired, or one of the UFC fighters would initiate a clinch. Now to a boxer, the clinch is a place of safety. It's a place where he can rest, tie his opponent up and wait until the ref steps in to resume the fight. Boxers are TRAINED to do this, and It is a habit that would be there downfall in the UFC ring. I remember a couple of years ago when Ali fought this bogus match against Antonio Anoki in Japan. Anoki spent most of his time on the ground and was literally POUNDING Ali's legs and shins, and unbalanced him on several occassions. Ali became very frustrated by Anoki's antics and by the look on his face, he (Ali) was clearly out of his element. Now could Ali have knocked Anoki out had he hit him? Of course! But Anoki didnt give him that opportunity.

[Tom Yum]

Does anyone know how many boxers have fought in the UFC, or other NHB contests. I only know of Arthur Jimmerson in UFC I, and some other boxer who fought against a ninjitsu artist in a later UFC.

To me, the boxers that I saw fight fought with too many self restrictions. They fought the match like their were in a boxing match, not a NHB match. I saw very little footwork, head/body movement, anything to denote an exceptional boxer using his skills against an opponent. Royce Gracie showed that he is beyond exceptional at his family's art, but to me Arthur lost that fight himself. I know there are alot of MA who think that boxers cannot compete in the UFC(I think they could if they truly knew how to BOX and use all their options, as other MMAs do), but I would like to know what you all think?

What do you think if a great boxer like Roy Jones Jr., or a Mike Tyson(in his prime), Muhammad Ali(before his banishment), or a Sugar Ray Robinson would do in the UFC in their respective weight brackets.

Hey BM what's up. The other boxing match you forgot was former heavy weight IBF champ Milton Bowen vs Steve Jennum (Ninjitsu/Jujitsu). Same thing happened; Boweb tried to fight like a boxer and spent too long trying to feel out Jennum for weak points and eventually Jennum closed the gap, clinched and ended up against the fence. Boweb managed to land a hook from the clinch, but it didn't have full power because his back was against the fence.

Jennum got the over under position from the clinch against the fence (there goes all of Bowen's weapons) and executed a picture perfect hip toss. Jennum stuck to Bowen and got the mount and proceeded to throw palm strikes at Bowen and bait him for an armbar. Total time was like 2-3 minutes.

BM, more and more boxers are cross training in the area of MMA. There's a guy whose working with Pat Miletich (I forget whom) but who was number 9 or 10 in his weight class. Anyhow, he said that MMA and kickboxing is alot different than boxing, but his boxing skills are allowing him to pick up the game quickly.

The move makes sense; if you don't have major sponsors with financial backing (as what probably happens to a lot of undiscovered boxers with talent) have a good record, can give and take a punch but can't break through then K-1 or MMA would probably sweep in and take up most of these guys and provide them with a decent living.

Francois Botha has had a bad streak in K-1, allthough his first fight started out with a bang. He knocked Abidi across the ring and instead of patiently waiting for Abidi to get up and finish the job, he nailed him while he was down and got DQ'd. The second match up, he tried to close as soon as possible and unload on the inside.

This tactic would kill most American style kickboxers, but those who train in muay thai will clinch as soon as a slugger gets within punching range. If the muay thai fighter is skilled in the clinch, the boxer will be off balance most of the time and be on the receiving end of some frikkin' hard knees from different angles and tripped up. From what I've been told, Abidi's clinch work looked so-so during that fight. He opted to counter attack Botha's bombs with leg kicks and some of his own punches. Those leg kicks took a toll on Botha and he eventually dropped his hands for a split second - just enough time for Abidi to fire a high thai kick to his head. The Bufallo crashed.

Albert Kraus is a great kickboxer with awesome boxing skills. He's a shorter than average middle weight, so he has to bridge the gap to avoid heavy kickers but can't get too tangled up or face heavy clinching. He seems to favor boxing over kicking.

During his K-1 Grand Prix tournament (2002 or 2003, cant remember) he threw no more than 4 kicks per fight and relied heavily on boxing and he ran over the competition. His defense against hard kickers like Duane Bang Ludwig was to try to get in as soon as possible and fire non stop. Ludwig rocked Kraus with a few hard kicks, but once Kraus got inside it was over for Ludwig.

If a boxer wants to compete in K-1 or MMA, he needs good kick defense, good distancing to avoid clinching and better than average take down defense.

When kickboxers figured out takedown defense and basic grappling, they scored a lot of impressive victories in MMA classic example is Muarice Smith vs. Conan Silvera in EFC (kickboxing vs BJJ), Maurice Smith vs. Mark Coleman (kick boxing vs wrestling), Ernesto Hoost vs Vovchanchin (kickboxing vs. MMA). Who can forget the recent match between Crocop and Nog (was it nog? I forget - too many punches to my noggin )? Crocop eventually lost but only because nog was able to act like a punching bag for several rounds.

[IPON]

The UFC although not all out street fighting, is pretty close simply because there is no time limit, you can employ other weapons and most of all, you can take it to the ground.

Hey Old Skool just so you know there are time limits in the UFC - now - not inth early versions. Also, weapons are not allowed....I am sure you meant weapons like kicks, elbows etc but just in case

[old skool dude]

Hey Old Skool just so you know there are time limits in the UFC - now - not inth early versions. Also, weapons are not allowed....I am sure you meant weapons like kicks, elbows etc but just in case

I stand corrected! I didnt know that they are imposing time limits now.

[Jitsu]

I think a Boxer's even a power house like Mike in his prime or an artist like Ali, would not fare well in MMA fights. Rules - Boxing is bound by rules, NHB - is even bound by rules and street fighting has its own implicit rules.

Most grapplers quickly bring a fight by anymeans nessary to there realm where they are king, even if it mean sacrafice (taking a punch or kick). Its likely that a boxer wong spend much time in his realm in fight with a grappler in a ring.

However, street fighting - Self defense has its on implicit rules . And my humble opionion is that in a realistic confrontation Mike in his prime is likely to beat the hell out of most grapplers, the best grapplers who are less likely to sacrafice themself in a bar or on the street (especially with the ever present threat of multiple attackers)

These contests that date back even before Roman fights favor those who are best suited for the rules. Put, the Gracies in a boxing ring (and I love and respect them and thier art by the way) and the will get lumped up. Same holds true for Mike, Ali and Roy Jones in MMA.

Reality - Self defense, However:
Is the realm of the Boxer, the Jujitsu practioner (Not Brazilian), the kickboxer and JkD, welcome to my house. <-- Dramatic ending

[TKDguy]

dirty boxing is used in mma all the time. i dont know if you consider this real boxing but phill baroni doesnt use his feet at all. he is mostly just a boxer who can fight ok from the clinch and has a little ground skill, and he has had some success.

[EmptyneSs]

look at vitor and his boxing skills. he has decimated many people with his wicked boxing skills.

[Uber_Tap]

Vito also has decent clinch and ground skills to so he has a little bit on the regular boxer. You are right though, his straight blast piston punches have put a few guys on their ass.

[Studiobuddy]

ninjutsu in UFC? any one have any clips of a ninjustu guy sparring some one lol

[HtTKar]

Originally posted by Old Skool Dude

I stand corrected! I didnt know that they are imposing time limits now.

It's true, they have imposed time limits. Personally I think this has completely ruined the UFC. Everyones just winning rounds. Its shameful.

Mike Tyson I think would have faired well in his prime. Dude was an animal without fear. He could knock a person out with either hand, and in a clinch would bite your face off. How can you compete with that.

[koto_ryu]

Don "The Predator" Frye won the Golden Gloves back in his day as a boxer, and he's definitely no slouch when it comes to excellent boxing skills. Some NHB fighters nowadays study boxing but most concentrate on Muay Thai as their only standup, which isn't the best of ideas. A buddy of mine, Gannon, was in a NHB match against a shorter guy who was on the Okinawa Boxing Team with me. Gannon was a straight-up MT guy, who could kick pretty fucking hard and had alright boxing skills. His opponent, Thom, was a crouch fighter and a really good boxer. Needless to say, Gannon got a few good kicks in on his legs but with one or two good combos Thom planted him into the ground. This isn't true for everybody, but smart NHB fighters have started adding boxing into their repertoire.

[Shoot]

Dont' mistake the sport for the martial arts style. Also, the SPORT of boxing is not "complete" and was never meant to be--it's a sport of punching. Boxers who would give up opportunities to make milliions of dollars in the sport of boxing to fight in a cage would likely cross train and use their boxing punches in addition to some wrestling and kick defenses--of course they would.

The question is how do boxers "fight" not how do boxers box in a modern boxing sport event. Many boxers know how to fight on the street which is why they were attracted to boxing in the first place. It's no coincidence that boxing attracts some of the toughest men from some of the toughest upbringings. Believe me a boxer only abides by the rules when there are rules. If given the option many boxers would rather hold someone and punch them or hold them down and punch them because that can be easier than stalking. We're comparing apples to oranges to compare UFC or MMA to the SPORT of boxing. That is almost as bad as saying "I wonder how a football player would do in the UFC." Well, he might not do too well (maybe he would actually) if he got down into a 3 point stance and tackled the oppoent ie. use the SPORT of football. A better compmarison would be to look at boxing in its more original form when boxing was no hold barred. The MARTIAL ART of boxing is different and largely lost. Boxing as a martial art takes kicks,shoots, and wrestling into account. Indeed, prior to rules boxing included wrestling and many other techniques besides merely throwing fists. However, what makes boxing a style and not a 'mixed martial art" is its supreme development of the fists and punching and the art of making an opponent miss. Boxing is the science of using punches. That means using wrestling when necessary so you can use your punches. That means defending and evading kicks to use your punches. That mean getting out of clinches using certain tactics not allowed in the sport of boxing to use your punches. etc... THat might mean holding someone to use your punches. Boxing, not limited by the MODERN SPORT of boxing, would do just fine in MMA or on the street IMO. Further, prior to boxing being a mere sport it was progressive in that it used techniques from wrestling styles in the British Isles. Those guys would have probably added the guard to their game if they knew about, so they could get back to their feet and fight with their fists.

Boxers, not limited by the modern rules of boxing, could do just fine too. I've seen really good guys get tagged by punches and lose in MMA and those punches were thrown by some guys who don't really specialize in boxing. Remember when Shamrock tagged Royce Gracie with a right? Shamrock is an awesome fighter, one of my favorites, but he's no great boxer. Just think what a punching specialist with a sprawl and some ground escapes could do? And it is not "anti-boxing" or "not boxing" to use a sprawl or other wrestling techniques. I would add that MMAs who have a boxing background do well. Frye and Vitor can box and it shows. Boxing/boxers are doing well already. World class boxers in their prime are not going to go into UFC or MMA. There's just very little economic incentive.

This is always a big topic. People are always asking this and discussing this. "How would a boxer do?" " he can't kick, can't wrestle, therefore he can't fight" is often a response (by non-boxers usually). Why do people assume that boxers don't know clinch fighting or grappling simply because they don't do it in their sport. Can football players, basket players, baseball players, wrestlers, etc. not fight either simply because of what they do in their sport? They can learn it as well as I or you or anyone can. Grappling is much simpler in fights than in jiujitsu or wrestling competitions. Punches change grappling and make it much simpler, just as the presence of grappling simplifies how a striker should fight.

It's important to not mistake the sport for the style. The sport is derived from a martial art style of pugilism that was much broader just as western wrestling was and many eastern martial arts were developed into sports. The sport is not the art--it is merely a competition using some of the fine points or the main spirit of an art or in the case of boxing--the sweet science.

(just to stir the pot a bit) This topic is usually in the same vain as, "How would Mike Tyson do?" etc... You think Tyson would limit himself to boxing rules in MMA? Shoot, he can hardly do that when he's boxing. Tyson is a pure fighter and was one of the greatest boxers EVER. I've seen footage of him wrestling with his 400 pound siberian tiger!! Make no mistake about it--he's street, ring, octogon etc.. lethal and dangerous. That dude can box; that dude can fight. Take away the rules and and ref and Tyson is only going to be more dangerous, not less. When Tyson takes your ear off, spits in your face, smashes your throat, rips your balls off and stomps your brains out--that's the street. And those bone crushing lethal punches he throws? That's the boxing part.