Boxing Tip of the week 1/26/05

[binski20]

Thought it might not be a bad idea to bring this back. A little boxing knowledge can go a long long way.

Might as well start with basics........stance.

I am not a big fan of the " you must stand like this" mentality. We all have different bodies, different postures etc. What works for you, doesn't neccesarily work for me. With that being said however, there are a few details which everyone should be sure to be aware of in their stances.
1) Knees bent! I have honestly seen countless guys standing there straightlegged. They have very little mobility. Keep your knees bent. Keep some spring in your legs. Go down as far as you feel comfortable with, the "crouching" style is even a real style with it's own advantages/disadvantages. I personally bend my knees a fair amount.

2)Keep your feet slightly turned. This keeps your body from being squared, minimizing your opponents target, as well as playing into your own defence.

3) Stay on your toes! While is is common to plant yourself to throw punches, don't stay flatfooted. Stay on your toes for mobility. If you're not used to this, devote some practice time to it. It will go a long long way.

4) Tuck your chin behind your lead shoulder. This helps keep it out of the line of attach from one direction and also helps keep your head down. If you want to hold your head straight up, be my guest, but please please invest in the best headguard you can.....cause you're gonna need it.

5) Keep your hands up. I have seen guys come to the gym who constantly drop their handsin mimic of some pro boxers. These guys were punched in teh head,.....repeatedly. Some prefer the fists at nose to forehead level seen by most boxers. Other prefer JKD style of stance, with the lead hand lower, protecting the body.

6)Sit your body down slightly. Don't crouch over, but keep it down. Once again, make as small a target as possible.

[koto_ryu]

Originally Posted by binski20

I am not a big fan of the " you must stand like this" mentality. We all have different bodies, different postures etc. What works for you, doesn't neccesarily work for me. With that being said however, there are a few details which everyone should be sure to be aware of in their stances.

Even all of those aren't necessarily used in a boxing stance. George Foreman was always a little flatfooted in the ring, especially as he got older, but he could still hit hard. Dempsey fought from a deep deep crouch (he used to shadowbox in a ring with a cage on top so the highest he could stand was 4 feet tall). Some guys keep their hands lower than others, some strut around like Ali. Some guys even keep their lead near their chin and keep the rear hand guarding their abdominal more than the other side of their face. Patterson was in a stance similar to Ali, and he wouldn't even make a fist until he was actually punching. Those might be good rules to follow if you're still only a year or less in the game, but after that, it's time to find your own way of doing things.

[Tom Yum]

well i like to box with both my hands at my side or straight out and my head way in front of my feet, chin up...just kidding

Basic Foot work

Your foot closest to the direction you want to go steps out and the other foot slides to even your stance. The movement is a shuffle, without too much head bobbing.

If your an orthodox fighter, left foot steps out either left or front if you move left or front, then right foot slides in. Right foot steps either right or back, left foot slides back to match.

Footwork plays in your offense and defense. Cutting of the ring for a side stepper, slipping, getting the angle and keeping yourself where you need to be.

Pivoting

This can't be learned online. If you are a naturally good dancer, you will catch this with no problem otherwise it will take alot of practice. Pivoting helps you get a better angle once you enter the infighting range and hit the guy where his defense is weak. It can also get you out off the ropes and back into the ring.

[HtTKar]

I found this forum (defend.net) by reading old stickgrappler threads. Some of these threads are the best reading you can find.

Thought I'd share these boxing tips

http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/fb/fb.html

These are written by

Frank Benn
Integrated Arts
Austin, Texas

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Good strat, Tom. What about specific strategy ideas from the mobility aspect? For instance, if you were boxing a long-range technical boxer (think Sugar Ray Leonard or Ali), what would you have to do from a mobility standpoint and how would you go about it?,!

My thinking cap goes to you, Mike. Against a long-range technical boxer I would try my dang best to keep my head moving and try to get the angle like the shorter Frasier vs Ali. Frasier's head movement made Ali miss and allow Frasier to get inside. Taller boxer's are also less likely to follow your level and keep at your level, since they are by nature taller. I've had a little bit of success playing the peekabo with some taller guys.

I have sparred taller fighters with longer reach and to tell you the truth I can never jab straight in, unless I want to eat some counter jabs or a devastating counter overhand. Footwork, head movement and attacking the body usually put me inside. But, I still need more work and regular sparring with taller more technical fighters.

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

What about if you were up against a slick counter fighter like Trinidad, Roy Jones, or Willie Pep? They didn't bounce around much, becasue they want you to punch so they can counter! What types of footwork nullify their strategy?

This is a tough one Mike. Most of the more experienced guys are really good counter punchers because I'm not at their level and they take it a little easier, so I am still working on how to develop a plan against good counter punchers (easier said than done, since it means outboxing a more experienced fighter). I have noticed that remaining constantly elusive and never favoring a lead shot so that I am harder to read sometimes creates openings against a counter puncher, but only sometimes. I've also used your technique of feinting low and then throwing a high straight right.

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

What about against a stalker like Frazier, or a tactician like Archie Moore? It might be fun to piece together some working strategies and try them out!

It seems to me like most people who are around my level are either long-range technical fighters, brawlers or stalker type fighters. Against the brawlers, I just try my best to stay relaxed under heavy fire, keep my hands up, move and counter; I can also nail my jab while they are winding up to hit me and take away some of their firepower. Also alot of brawlers are head hunters, from time to time I will hit downstairs to wear them down if I can, then try to tatoo upstairs with my jab and left hook.

Mike, Im allways learning and would love to see your thoughts about strategy.

[koto_ryu]

My favorite stance: the Stonewall defense popularized by Champ Thomas. Get in a normal stance for footwork (approx 18" between the two feet, weaker side leg leading curved slightly inwards, rear foot back, staying on the balls of the feet, etc.). Now roll your left shoulder up tight and tuck your chin so your shoulder's blocking your chin almost as much as it can. Bring your right arm up palm facing your chin and in a loose fist right below your ear. The left arm goes across your gut and falls a few inches above your right elbow. It's an awkward stance to get used to, but it provides excellent defense and sets you up perfectly for counter-punching and some strong punches.

I also enjoy crouch fighting, I used to fight similar to Floyd's peek-a-boo stance but a bit deeper of a crouch until I learned the Stonewall.

[koto_ryu]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Out of curiosity, Koto -
Do you ever find it hard to lead off from that position? It sounds like you're describing something similar to what Bruce Lee sketched in the Tao of Jeet Kune Do when referring to the "small phasic bent-knee stance." I feel like I'm limited to countering or jabbing when standing this way, and I wondered if you have had similar experiences.

It is awkward to lead off with it at first, even once you've used it a lot it still feels weird but if you take a trigger step with your jab, it works out pretty well.

[koto_ryu]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

So in your experience, is it fair to say that it's better to use it against someone who's dominating on offense, but not so much against someone who'd reluctant to lead? I guess what I'm picturing in my head is that it's easier to use what you described against a guy that forces you to be more defensive, but you run the risk of being too predictable (since you pretty much have to start with the jab) against someone who's more of a counter fighter. Does that sound close?

You can still hit with the right pretty easily. If when you start throwing it, you just keep your left where it is, it should slide naturally to one side and not interfere with the punching. Took me a while to get that done. I tend to fight pretty aggressively and it's good for me since I like infighting, as it helps me get close while still protecting me. It's not as good for those who like to fight on the outside I'd have to say, as I use it mostly for closing in and finishing them up close.

[koto_ryu]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

If you keep the left where it is, what's protecting your head? I can see using the shoulder when in the ready position, but throwing the rear opens the hips and torso up so your shoulder can't stay in the way...

Sorry, missed explaining a part of it Get in the stance like it's described. Now throw that right with a good waist twist. If you keep the arm loose, as you turn with the right punch, your left floats up to about nose level, then it came drop down appropriately when you're retracting it. The shoulder still helps deflect most of the blow, but thats probably the only weak portion of it. It won't work for everyone as everyone has their own fighting style. To get more indepth in it, pick up the book Champ has out, it has a number of his old courses in it. It's called HOW TO BE AN ASS-WHIPPING BOXER.

[Tant01]

Wish I could explain it so well. My problem is fitting EVERYTHING that happens in those few moments into a well organized well thought out paragraph... Steping I understand and I can demonstrate the footwork you describe but to put it in words? Good Job! And thank you!

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Tant,
Sometimes, brother, I think you give me waaaaay too much credit. If you can do it, then you can break it down. It's just a matter of simplifying elements. "What did you do" becomes:

1. What did you do with your feet?
2. What did you do in relation to the opponent's feet?
3. What line did it close?
4. What line did it open?
5. How did the opponent adjust to the opening/closing of those lines?
6. What tools present themselves most readily for you to take advantage of both the opening/closing of lines and the opponent's reactions?

Answer those and you have a pretty good formula for breaking down (and consequently training or teaching) just about anything related to mobility and footwork. Get really specific, and you can ask similar questions about the timing and rhythm (how long did the line stay open/closed?), or about defense, offense, or any other part of the fight game. It's an old school skill, but learning to analyze tapes of other fighters (and yourself) is a skill worth developing!

I don't think so (think I give you too much credit) And the breakdown can be overcomplicated too. I've been handed a chart of a circle with many disecting lines through it both straight and circular at measured angles. The mathmatical breakdown of movement is far more difficult for me than just saying "hit here" and "now" Or "move this way while avoiding that" or "first this then hit"....you know?

The chart was some old fencing thing (I think?) Very complex but in a way very similar in the scientific application of technique.

If you weren't at least competent I wouldn't be taking notes! Thanks Mr.B!

[Tom Yum]

Hey Mike, I really enjoy reading your posts cause it gives me pointers that I can use now and then.

One of the things I was thinking about was when you are against the ropes and taking heat. I learned a great drill from a coach who would start throwing hooks downstairs and upstairs with the focus mitts.

One of the things we were told to do is watch for a high hook after one or two body shots, bob, weave and pivot out and counter with some hooks and uppercuts of our own.

The other was to fire back when hit downstairs. Example, Your partner hits you up with some low hooks, you block and fire an uppercut from that same hand catching a decent opening and firing your way back into the ring.

Yet another was to get a good neck clinch/overhook for head control and manuver your partner into the ropes changing the position and allowing you to deliver your own shots.

[spirit teacher]

I am wanting to go to Cuba to check out some of the training there ? any preferred gyms, are they well advertised ?

[academian]

toe to toe is a no no! If they try to box you grapple if they try to grapple you should box. Never fight anyone on their terms.Maintain control of the situation. Just my opinion

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by academian

toe to toe is a no no! If they try to box you grapple if they try to grapple you should box. Never fight anyone on their terms.Maintain control of the situation. Just my opinion

That would be good advise in the MMA FORUM....