Interesting Vegas Odds

[SamuraiGuy]

I was recently in vegas, just before christmas and I was looking through a book on different odds on your not so common events in Vegas, one was a boxer vs a wrestler in a prize fight, I never heard of this happening, or saw it while I was there, but apparently they do happen, the interesting part is the odds were 75 to 1! that a wrestler would beat a boxer, im not sure on the exact rules of said match, but what do you guys think of this?... and does it make you boxing guys a bit scared? lol

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

I was recently in vegas, just before christmas and I was looking through a book on different odds on your not so common events in Vegas, one was a boxer vs a wrestler in a prize fight, I never heard of this happening, or saw it while I was there, but apparently they do happen, the interesting part is the odds were 75 to 1! that a wrestler would beat a boxer, im not sure on the exact rules of said match, but what do you guys think of this?... and does it make you boxing guys a bit scared? lol

Sounds right.

Are you assuming that all boxers only train in boxing?

[SamuraiGuy]

Well it was just them talking about boxers, and if you mean the whole "arent you boxers scared?" thing, well... yes i assume a "boxer" (someone who boxes by definition) would be scared, not a person who does martial arts including boxing. Heh, technicalities, oh ya....

[boxinghurts]

Why are the odds 75 to 1? is boxing THAT insufficient compared to wrestling?

[Enzo566]

wait if the odds are Boxing 75 : Wrestling :1

wouldnt that mean for every 75 bouts the boxer wins the wrestler would win 1 match?

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by boxinghurts

Why are the odds 75 to 1? is boxing THAT insufficient compared to wrestling?

Boxing and wrestling have different goals. Also depends on the skill level of each fighter and relative size. In a style vs. style match, the wrestler has the clear advantage because the boxer is not trained to deal with takedown attempts. The wrestler would most likely get his takedown and control on the ground.

My guess is that the 75 to 1 assumes that the boxer knows absolutely nothing about wrestling, isn't a knockout puncher and is trying to box the wrestler?

Some boxers are really quick with their feet and hands...if you tried a so-so shoot on them, you'd eat a nice uppercut, wondering where it came from and as you turn around to see where he went, you'd eat 2 more gloves just before you gaze into the wonderful purple and yellow kaledescope.

[Enzo566]

ok there is also this to think about to. If a boxer and a wrestler both had boxing gloves on..... lol the wrestler would be done.

And if they both didnt have gloves one maybe just hand wraps..... eh im still thinking the wrestler would be done.

wrestler shoots.. boxer sidesteps or uppercuts to the chin.. down goes wrestler.


I mean dont get me wrong the wrestlers that i know are insane athletes, and most of them could probably whoop my ass cause im a beginner, But logically in a bout it occured to me that if the wrestler didnt have striking skills he would be at a supreme disadvantage, because the boxer can exert much more force on the wrestler, with a well placed punch. i could be wrong though

[SamuraiGuy]

Thing is though, you have to be pretty tough to be a wrestler, their getting hit/slammed and thrown around in their training to, even if there were no gloves.. they would still be able to take more then one punch, and one punch is all they would have to take, once the wreslter grabbed the boxer I think it woudl be over, takedown, then on the ground... its over.

[SamuraiGuy]

Although this is a lil skewed because hes taken a bunch of shots, I would like to point out Randy Couture, mainly a Greco Roman Wreslter, who has branched out through necessity, I do believe he has never been Knocked out.... and hes fought some of the best srikers, Lidell , Belfort.

[Enzo566]

ok question is the wrestler using boxing gloves, as the boxer would be?

if so how can he really do his......stuff

[SamuraiGuy]

Not quite sure about the Belfort Vs Silva, but im pretty sure Belfort one... because you said strikers, adn Belfort is known for his punching power/flurries. Well... Belfort is an accomplished boxer, but he also happens to be a blackbelt in BJJ.... oh slightly overlooked fact lol. And if im not mistaken a successful one. And as far as Randy Couture goes, he's mainly a wrestler not a striker, his fight vs Lidell, everyone was suprised that he could strike as well as he did, he outstriked the striker, that was the story of the fight. Both of these guys are very proficient in grappling as well as striking.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

Not quite sure about the Belfort Vs Silva, but im pretty sure Belfort one... because you said strikers, adn Belfort is known for his punching power/flurries. Well... Belfort is an accomplished boxer, but he also happens to be a blackbelt in BJJ.... oh slightly overlooked fact lol. And if im not mistaken a successful one. And as far as Randy Couture goes, he's mainly a wrestler not a striker, his fight vs Lidell, everyone was suprised that he could strike as well as he did, he outstriked the striker, that was the story of the fight. Both of these guys are very proficient in grappling as well as striking.

Belfort ended the fight with strikes from the get go. The fight never went to the ground, except for Silva crashing into the mat where the ref had to pull Belfort off from punching him. Got to admit that within 30 seconds of pulling Belfort off, Silva was awake and ready to fight (that's a helluva chin and fighting spirit). Replace Belfort with Evander Hollyfield, Mike Tyson or Roy Jones Jr (as a cruiserweight) and you see what I mean. If the boxer approaches a match not as a boxing match, but as a fight you will see a huge change in strategy and style.

As I've said the 75:1 odds make alot of assumptions. Shannon Briggs was a top 10 heavyweight pro-boxer whose been cross training like mad with thaiboxers and grapplers. Pit him against a decent wrestler and you will see what I mean.

When Frans Botha squared off against Cyril Abidi in their first K-1 encounter, Botha knocked Abidi down quick. The reason he lost was a DQ for following Abidi to the mat and hitting him in the head.

Yes Couture is a very adaptive fighter and a hard worker. That's why he was able to beat Lidell at his own game.

[Tom Yum]

I've seen one instance where an uppercut stopped a shoot attempt.

One of my buddies trains with a UFC fighter who is a really skilled boxer and thai fighter with lightning quick stand up game. A fellow who was a pretty good grappler was working with him at the time; they started off with a short exchange, no clear dominance established. The grappler shot in like a rocket and our stand up hero's legs just seem to know how to get out of the way, upon planting and firing an uppercut square into the other guys chin.

I don't think I could pull that off and I know alot of the other guys couldn't, but if you have the gift of super-speed then it could happen....

[SamuraiGuy]

Hmm, that one instance would be the 1 out of 75 then?... Personally I dont really care about proving a grappler would win, and I'm just providing counter-points for the fun of it, I realize both are important and you need both. To the Belfort Vs Silva, im still not sure about which fight that is, maybe I should watch it, I will try to get ahold of it, but alot of Vitor's fights have ended like that. Even though it was Vitor's boxing which ended it, Silva knew he has one hell of a ground game, that had to factor in, most people wouldnt attempt to grapple a BJJ blackbelt if they could help it.

I believe it all boils down to this, the striker has one or two shots to stop the grappler, if he doesnt stop/hurt the grappler in that narrow window he has , the grappler has one the fight assuming his takedown is successful and assuming the striker has no significant grappling ability, and the grappler has no significant striking ability.

[SamuraiGuy]

Just watched that Vitor Vs Silva fight, I've seen alot like it lol, Vitor has amazing hands and striking, and there really was no chance for either of them to grapple, wonder what you would call vitor , a striker or a grappler?