Does that hurt?

[Screamtruth]

I have been training Muay Thai for 2 years. I have a question for you boxers; how can you judge your KO power? I know I can rock the bag pretty well, but I somehow never feel confident that I can just lay an opponent, or someone in a street fight, out. I have unfortunately been in only a few sparring sessions since I work offshore and they are hard to come by out there, and in those sessions my timing and distance are so far off because of lack of experience that I really do not get an accurate account of my power. It just amazes me when I see fighters like Kermit Cintron, Rocky Marciano, Eric Morales, or Tyson just hand it to someone, and I often wonder...can I hit like that?

[Garland]

Man...I can't be knocked out. Seems that you actually need a brain to swish around to go unconscious...when I get popped in the head, all I hear is loose change.

[Screamtruth]

Thanks Mike, that's what I was thinking. I know it's a timing and distance thing. If I watch a fighter, such as Chuck Liddell, he doesn't seem to have a tremendous punch, but he ko's people because he knows how and when to catch them.

[koto_ryu]

Technique, timing, accuracy, and power is where it all stems from.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by Screamtruth

I really do not get an accurate account of my power. It just amazes me when I see fighters like Kermit Cintron, Rocky Marciano, Eric Morales, or Tyson just hand it to someone, and I often wonder...can I hit like that?

some contact sparring when you get back might give you some indication.

It also depends on whom you are sparring with. If you are working with a relatively new guy with less experience than you, you could send him to his knees with one or two punches - but that same punch hitting a more experienced or significantly larger fighter might move him or shake him a little but he'll be right back at you.

Punches in bunches. Don't try to knock out your partners' now, but you can allways agree to up the contact.

[Hardball]

The Secret that no one wants to tell you about is "Vital Spots and Pressure Points" I don't care because I'm never going to fight you. Bare knuckes is easier than gloves, smaller glover are better than larger ones. Combinations are good but any good Black belt can knock you out in bare knuckles or bare feet with one strike to your pressure point.

[Hardball]

I'll send you a bill in the mail. LOL

[Garland]

Originally Posted by Hardball

The Secret that no one wants to tell you about is "Vital Spots and Pressure Points" I don't care because I'm never going to fight you. Bare knuckes is easier than gloves, smaller glover are better than larger ones. Combinations are good but any good Black belt can knock you out in bare knuckles or bare feet with one strike to your pressure point.

Hmmm. I dunno about that. No gloves means you can cut the opponent easier, but you can't hit as hard without worrying about damaging your hands or wrists. You can maim somebody pretty well bare knuckle, but having a gloves allows you to deliver more force, and cause the opponent to have their brain whip back and forth inside their dome, which is essentially what a knock out is. Or a hit to the jaw line and the nerves there which cause a vasso-vagal response, same difference...maybe body blows could do more damage bare knuckles, i.e. kidneys and liver shots, or solar plexus shots...but internal injury cause knock outs...no gloves just mean lacerations.

[Hardball]

Originally Posted by Garland

Hmmm. I dunno about that. No gloves means you can cut the opponent easier, but you can't hit as hard without worrying about damaging your hands or wrists. You can maim somebody pretty well bare knuckle, but having a gloves allows you to deliver more force, and cause the opponent to have their brain whip back and forth inside their dome, which is essentially what a knock out is. Or a hit to the jaw line and the nerves there which cause a vasso-vagal response, same difference...maybe body blows could do more damage bare knuckles, i.e. kidneys and liver shots, or solar plexus shots...but internal injury cause knock outs...no gloves just mean lacerations.

I don't have to worry about that, I have the "IRON FIST". See hand conditioning thread in chinese forumn.

[Screamtruth]

Hey Hardball, you take checks? LOL
Anyways, I learned the pressure point lesson, funny enough, in grappling classes. Some examples of these lessons was my first time to be cross faced and when I had an opponent rub his knuckles along the base of my jaw. That hurt. Anyways, if I could focus a bare knuckle punch into these areas and land it, bye bye.

[Hardball]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

I'm coming in on this one a little late in the game, but I have to throw in my two cents. I have taken several course in pressure point control tactics, and been to the one-touch knockout seminars in my earlier years. I've been in jobs where I was obligated to restrict my techniques to pressure point controls (hospital security) for legal reasons, and I can tell you, no one I've ever met or trained with - NO ONE - will make pressure points alone work in a real encounter. George Dillman and those like him can do amazing things, and I've seen them drop great big ol' farm boys with pressure point shots. However, those dummies were standing still at a seminar, not actively and aggressively applying offensive tools to the demonstrator. Even in the environments where I was obligated to limit myself to pressure points, the single only factor that made them work was the fact that I had six other security guys laying on top of whatever poor bastard we were dealing with, and we'd use the pressure points simply to get them to quit resisting. I can also tell you that no matter which of us applied those tactics (and one of our best was a black belt of 25 years who lives and breathes pressure point tactics), they still failed better than half the time. When they worked, it was usually because the recipient was too tired to fight back, or realized that he was hugely outnumbered. More times than not it just pissed them off that we were causing them pain and it made them more violent. I'll make an offer, and this is not to come across as cocky or arrogant. I mean this not as a challenge or any other such adolescent nonsense. But if you know of someone that you feel can really produce one of these mystical one-touch knockouts against a skilled and resisting opponent, I'll volunteer to be the opponent. I'll even limit myself to boxing tools, since I'm asking them to limit their offense to pressure points. Like I said, I'm not making challenges, but I would like to see the system proven. If someone could prove it under those conditions, I'd sign myself up then and there. Til then, I have to remain skeptical.

Remember now, I said pressure points and "Vital Spots" There is a subtle difference. Stick to the simplest and most basic ones; Like the chin, the temples and right below the nose but above the lip. And I'm talking bare knuckles with some degree of conditioned hands.

[EmptyneSs]

Originally Posted by Screamtruth

I have been training Muay Thai for 2 years. I have a question for you boxers; how can you judge your KO power? I know I can rock the bag pretty well, but I somehow never feel confident that I can just lay an opponent, or someone in a street fight, out. I have unfortunately been in only a few sparring sessions since I work offshore and they are hard to come by out there, and in those sessions my timing and distance are so far off because of lack of experience that I really do not get an accurate account of my power. It just amazes me when I see fighters like Kermit Cintron, Rocky Marciano, Eric Morales, or Tyson just hand it to someone, and I often wonder...can I hit like that?

you know, alot of it has to do with how u hit the person, its not always about the force. there is a reason why hooks produce more knockouts than most other strikes. its the way u strike as opposed to the power behind it, though power is a great factor too. ive seen people be knocked out by wimpy punches. when u strikes somene with a hook, u are making their head jerk to the side really fast wich tweaks the brain stem and causes a ko. however some people like tyson just have so much power that they will ko u no matter how they hit u.

also, theres no real way to measure your ko power, there are just too many variables.

[HtTKar]

Remember now, I said pressure points and "Vital Spots" There is a subtle difference. Stick to the simplest and most basic ones; Like the chin, the temples and right below the nose but above the lip. And I'm talking bare knuckles with some degree of conditioned hands.

Combinations are good but any good Black belt can knock you out in bare knuckles or bare feet with one strike to your pressure point.

That's not true. I'll tell you I've been hit very hard in all three areas that you speak of without being KO'd, let alone knocked down. Not that I have never been knocked down before, but it's not a guarantee that one strike is going to work. I have seen people line up to take somebodies best shot, take it, and still whoop the other dudes ass. Its good to know pressure points, and why would you hit anywhere else, but there are no guarantees. Everybody has the ability to KO anybody. Actually doing it's the problem, even for the experienced or professional.

[academian]

Oyama liked to attend the local dance competitions in the area in order to socialize and relax after his martial arts training. It was at one such dance event that Oyama came to the aid of a female who was being accosted by a local troublemaker. When Oyama intervened, the troublemaker, a tall Japanese suspected of several homicides, became enraged and produced a knife. Taunting Oyama, the troublemaker made continuous slashing movements through the air in front of Oyama’s face with the knife then lunged towards Oyama. Oyama blocked the attack and delivered a forceful punch to the head of the assailant, killing him instantly.

[Hardball]

I guess I didn't mention that I am a Black Belt who Bench Pressed over 400 lbs after the age of 40. Maybe my "POWER' is abnormal. Come to think of it, I always got high marks in the power department. Having "Iron Fist", which I do, Helps also. But in any case your arguments are "Sound" thus the need for "Combinations". P.S. I am aware of the legal ramifications of using the above and I reserve these skills for extreme "Self Defense Situations"

Humbly Yours,

Bowing Out