The riddle of self defense: from the ring to the street

[Blue Wave Gym]

what ring fighting skills best transfer over to street fighting/which 5 skills would would you practice/aquire/work on the most for success in the ring and on the street
mine would be 1.punching 2. clinching
3.ground grappeling 4. knees and elbows 5 .low kicks
P.S. I'm going to ask this question in the mma, jkd and kickboxing sections also, as I feel these are the only(along with boxing) self-defense "styles" that are functional

[Blue Wave Gym]

Am I asking a question that has no answers like "what is the meaning of life"
is asking what ring fighting skills best transfer over to street fighting an example of asking the same kind of question with respect to martial arts.
Is this an unanswerable question? does anyone have an answer?

[Hardball]

1) Sidekick, 2) right cross 3) left hook 4) front thrust kick(foot jab) 5.) uke gosh

[Blue Wave Gym]

the side and front kick are all low kicks I assume.
what about the view that kicking breaks one of the fundamentals of fighting by putting you off balance,slipping iin the ring no big deal,slipping in the street=getting your head stomped in,what about on ice/snow/wet pavment/ in mud ect.?????

[peopleschamp]

Kicking low rarely causes a slip from an experienced fighter - unless your doing something like a really hard thai roundhouse and you miss or you try to kick on a slippery surface - even then it seems pretty rare. Low line targets are more accesible too. In a street encounter, what you're basically going to encounter is head hunters (and people unlikely to protect low line targets) and from the rimshot range a kick is highly effective and really your only choice (seeing as you and your opponent are out of the power striking range) so you have to be able to deliver it quick and with power or that range would mean you have no attack options. It is worth practicing and developing your abilities in. Just as any strike your proficiency to throw, connect, and obliterate is directly related to how often and acurately you practice said movements.

Also - if you are on a slippery surface obviously you eliminate kicks.

[Blue Wave Gym]

yea I knew how to kick, but as far as rim shot range I think most fights start in hook range not straight punch range or rim shot range.Maybe if someone is approaching you on the street then ok, but not in an enclosed area i.e. a club/bar,school,in a line ect.

[Hardball]

Originally Posted by Blue Wave Gym

the side and front kick are all low kicks I assume.
what about the view that kicking breaks one of the fundamentals of fighting by putting you off balance,slipping iin the ring no big deal,slipping in the street=getting your head stomped in,what about on ice/snow/wet pavment/ in mud ect.?????

I aim my kicks for the private parts. If I catch them coming in the blow is twice as hard. If it's one on one, I like to go for the choke out even though I didn't mention it above. Listen guy, when I kick, I kick hard, if any body gonna get their head stomped it's gonna be the guy who attacks me.

[peopleschamp]

Originally Posted by Blue Wave Gym

yea I knew how to kick, but as far as rim shot range I think most fights start in hook range not straight punch range or rim shot range.Maybe if someone is approaching you on the street then ok, but not in an enclosed area i.e. a club/bar,school,in a line ect.

Yeah, well fights move quickly in and out of ranges - there is nothing saying that if fight starts in hook range, straight range, or even rim shot range that it'll stay there - space, your footwork, and your opponents all play a role right. The fact is that, although it isn't always possible, you should strive for enough awareness that you can maintain rim shot range (especially until you can get a good grasp on the other fighters skills) and on the street it can keep the level of violence to a minimum, add to the chances of the fight being deescalated externally, and give you a possible out. Fights often enough start verbally, this is the best point in which to establish distance right - so sometimes it's up to you at what range the fight starts. But mainly my point was that if you want to execute a kick at some point you have to get to rim shot range because if you're too close you'll smother your own power.

I'd advocate practicing range awareness, sparring with different sizes of fighters, working on power, footwork, power, footwork, grappling and the clinch. Sometimes it's as important to be able to keep someone at bay as it can be learning to fight close - in both the ring, and, well especially, in the street. Oh, and practice the ability to fight in fatigued and dizzy states - it definately makes an impact in your game.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Hardball

Listen guy, when I kick, I kick hard, if any body gonna get their head stomped it's gonna be the guy who attacks me.

Oooh, that's Shaft's one bad mother fu.... Shut yo mouth!...I'm just talking 'bout Shaft!

[HtTKar]

I'm just talking 'bout Shaft!

Then we can dig it.

[Elfunko]

Originally Posted by Blue Wave Gym

yea I knew how to kick, but as far as rim shot range I think most fights start in hook range not straight punch range or rim shot range.Maybe if someone is approaching you on the street then ok, but not in an enclosed area i.e. a club/bar,school,in a line ect.

Heres something I learned. If someone wants to talk tough, etc. but are not within striking range then everything is peechy. But if someone moves into striking range, then you better strike. Warn them before, try and get away, but if that person has the sack to directly threaten you be moving into you, then you have every right to take them out. Appearently there is some machismo facade about butting chests or getting into someones face, I dunno. If you are within an enclosed space the situation becomes even more dangerous as your option to run/escape is blocked. If they move in on you, and are trapping you, is this not more serious? For that situation I would take them down hard. And if you do fight, fight until they are are on the ground bleeding. It's not a one punch and check if they still want to fight, it's a 5 punches and whatever else until they are put down, then get the hell out of there. But this is just what I've been taught (and seems very logical), I have not had to use any of this. So take it as you will.

[peopleschamp]

Originally Posted by Elfunko

For that situation I would take them down hard. And if you do fight, fight until they are are on the ground bleeding. It's not a one punch and check if they still want to fight, it's a 5 punches and whatever else until they are put down, then get the hell out of there. But this is just what I've been taught (and seems very logical), I have not had to use any of this. So take it as you will.

When you do use this "tactic" realize you've probably eliminated your chances of copping a self defense plea and escalated the situation well beyond what you have the legal right to do. It's perfectly fine to set up a fence and make the other person aware to not cross a certain boundary, but if it is one of those "chest butting" scenario then more than likely it is just about bravado. That is actually a situation which you can just back away from unless you're one of those guys who needs to "prove" himself by starting and/or doing shite. Usually if one person backs off, then it won't be anything.

Better to have your hands up (maybe have your crazy monkey or three point defense set to go), stay calm, and try to deescalate and/or get out of there. If it's all about self preservation, well then realize that that guy you beat down may have friends, weapons, connections, etc. Attack first is a great principle, but seldom should it be the rule. Use that only when something is most certainly imminent, not necessarily the case if some drunk talks smack at a bar.

[Elfunko]

Originally Posted by peopleschamp

When you do use this "tactic" realize you've probably eliminated your chances of copping a self defense plea and escalated the situation well beyond what you have the legal right to do. It's perfectly fine to set up a fence and make the other person aware to not cross a certain boundary, but if it is one of those "chest butting" scenario then more than likely it is just about bravado. That is actually a situation which you can just back away from unless you're one of those guys who needs to "prove" himself by starting and/or doing shite. Usually if one person backs off, then it won't be anything.

Better to have your hands up (maybe have your crazy monkey or three point defense set to go), stay calm, and try to deescalate and/or get out of there. If it's all about self preservation, well then realize that that guy you beat down may have friends, weapons, connections, etc. Attack first is a great principle, but seldom should it be the rule. Use that only when something is most certainly imminent, not necessarily the case if some drunk talks smack at a bar.

Ahh, true. But I never spend time in bars, hell I'm not even legal for that. But you are right, if you feel imminent threat then would be the right time. For me, 5'10" and 135lbs, there is a large majority of hte male population who are bigger than me. In this case, a larger foe advancing on me who is trying to calm things down. I feel this could be very justified as long as I excercise every means of escape (talking, backing away, even just running away, etc.). The situation is even more serious if you are in an enclosed space. But I dunno, I'd rather have some tough guy advance and me drop him and get out of there than have some tough guy advance and me lose my best opportunity to get out (assuming there is percieved threat).

[Rasta]

I agree that all efforts should be made to de-escalate a situation. It if should come to blows, I've become a big fan of the clinch paired up with knees and elbows. I find few people even look for knees, so you can catch them unaware.

Also, knees and elbows are great for when there's little space to manuver, the distance has already been closed, and any escape route is closed off. What you need to be most concerned about then, is if the person is a grappler, they'll try to take you to the ground. Otherwise, if they're not well versed in knees and elbows as well, you biggest concern is hooks, weak punches, or headbutts.

Finally, knees and elbows just hurt like hell. I can't remember the last time I was in a "street fight", but from the sparring w/ people I train with and messing around w/ friends, light taps w/ the knee or elbow can do a fair amount of damage.

[Blue Wave Gym]

All functional ma should focus on making ring/dojo(dojo LOL) techniques functional and directly applicable, more articles need to be written about it by qualified people, not tma belt sellers talking out of their ass, Alas if only we could have a seminar with Rodney King and a lawyer that seecializes in self defense cases, then we would fing situational tactics that allowed us not to give up firing the first shot /maintaing distance/controling the fight via sezing the initive and still not land up in jail taking showers with large men with lots of tatoos.That's why I laugh my aass off about articles about the selfdefense merits of carrying a tactical folder and using it on only one unarmed attacker LOL,that's a sure way to end up in prison.Yea if you're a 90# woman who stabbs a 250 pound unarmed man who's trying to rape her then you'll have no legal problems but the law actually puts most men in more danger. Duty to retreat LOL, just because you run away from someone doesn't mean they won't run after you and start attacking you again then you'll be out of breath if you have to run some distance and be fatigued and less able to defend yourself.This situation happend to me when I was a teen ager and didn't like to fight like I do now. AND don't give me lectures on running 3-6 or more miles a day for areobic conditioning,as many non-martial arts people are either unwilling or physically unable to run very fast or a great distance.