liver shot against southpaw

[haumana2000]

comments advice? it seems it would be an easier target. any creative ways on how to set up the liver shot? come on mike...

[Tom Yum]

It is easier. I've pulled it off.

Here's how I've managed to set it up:

1. jab or double jab upstairs to get a reaction and shuffle in at an angle and fire off that shovel hook.

2. Bob and weave under his right hook and shovel hook it.

3. Clinch. Use a pass technique where you kind of pull his right arm with your left, more of a slight check-pull action and fire the shovel hook.

Awaiting Mike's response...

[DickHardman]

just aim for the ribcage. anywhere on the rib cage will do. upward strikes to the bottom of the ribcage are best, as the chance of breaking them and making them puncture nearby organs is greater. you can target the floating rib if you want, its easier to break than the rest and its possibly to puncture a kidney or lung when you break it.

the solar plexus is great too, hit someone there and if you dont drop them you will see their mobility disappear before your very eyes. then you use footwork and combinations to pick him apart, as he wont be able to chase you around.

[Tom Yum]

Dick, the liver shot is different than other body shots.

When it lands, it rattles your guts and leaves you feeling empty inside. Shots to the solar plexus cut off your wind.

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Dick, the liver shot is different than other body shots.

When it lands, it rattles your guts and leaves you feeling empty inside. Shots to the solar plexus cut off your wind.

yes i know its different. however my point was that the ribcage/solar plexus shot is easier to get due to the larger area it encompasses and its just as effective at stopping people as a livershot.

[DickHardman]

interesting info from a muay thai article

"The torso or trunk of the body, makes up about 50% of your overall size and therefore is a very large target and as such is likely to be the focus of a great deal of your opponents physical aggression, although this is usually a secondary target as fighters are predominantly headhunters in that most of their focused attention is targeted towards the head. That being said the body comes in for a great deal of abuse over the course of a fight. However the torso can be very well conditioned to withstand a huge amount of physical damage and abuse. The main methods of protecting the torso are to increase the thickness and density of the muscles in the areas where it needs it. From months of prolonged punching with light weights your pectoral muscles will flatten and define, these muscles basically give a muscular cover to your breast bone beneath. The muscle acts as little more than a means of dissipating the impact of the blow, usually a punch. Below this sits your rib cage. This bony structure is to protect your vital organs from the kind of damage we are trying to inflict on them, and the ribs like any other bone can be developed or thickened in a number of ways:

(1) through breakage, both painful and potentially harmful (not advised), though due to the number of broken ribs I endured over my fighting career my rib cage is now almost a solid shield of thick bone;
(2) through impact training.

In Muay Thai as mentioned previously clinch work is very common, and one part of that is the use of knee strikes during the clinch. Therefore while training and delivering these strikes to your training partners torso a number of things happen. The muscle between and around the ribs start to thicken, from the eventual and repeated bruising that occurs from the strikes, the blood starts to calcify on the ribs just as happens with a broken bone and this increases the thickness, strength and density of the ribs. To the back of the ribs just under the arms are the Latissimus dorsi muscles. These can be developed by lifting weights or even better by lifting your own body weight (chin ups or dips both help develop these muscles). The more developed these muscles become the better as they too are used as cushion against impact, though these muscles will not by themselves protect you from the impact of a strike. Used in conjunction again with the forearms will help to reduce the devastating effects of the technique."

[Tom Yum]

Good stuff, Hardman. The midsection is a large area and your points are all valid. The original question asked for ways to set up a liver shot and is in the boxing section.

[Ghost]

just do the same as normal but in reverse, not hard is it

[medic06]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

and for some reason, southpaws tend to have dynamite in their straight left hands.

Shhhhhhhhh!!!!! I like the element of surprise

[Ghost]

the problem is that southpaws are trained to defend their main weakness, the straight right opening.
its not as if they dont know its their. still putting pressure there means they need to defend it.

generally southpaws have an advantage as most people are used to fighting authodox fighters so when they come against a southpaw the southpaw has the most experience.

the notion of telling southpaws not to fight in southpaw is rediculous and anyone suggesting so should be shot.
Particularly in thai boxing where the lead leg comes under so much attack, a southpaw would be recieving most of the hard low kicks on his naturally strongest leg, his left leg. thats just pure lunacy. you cant fight nature you have to role with what you have.

a good southpaw boxer would be marvin hagler. if anyone wants to see a southpaw fighter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZHIo5ylQA8

in thai boxing, my boxing instructor is a southpaw, sangtienoi.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Well, I tend to agree that people will be better in their natural lead, but at the same time, I am proof to the contrary. I'm a "made" southpaw - a natural right hander that learned to fight southpaw. I don't know if I'd go so far as to call Master Chai "rediculous" (especially if you can't spell it correctly), because his training methods have worked for a whole great big bunch of people over the years. I think it's a matter of preference.

Also, saying that southpaws learn to defend their main weakness is a lot like saying orthodox fighters learn how to defend a jab. It's true, but it's no reason not to throw it, and certainly no indicator that they'll be any good at it. Defending a straight lead cross is a matter of how good you are at throwing it far more often than it is a matter of how good the other guy's defense is. A shit ton of people knew how to defend against a jab and got lit up when Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard threw it at them. All kinds of people had great defenses for a body hook until they met Julio Cesar Chavez. Plenty of people knew that all you had to do against Bill Wallace was to stay away from his left leg. None of that made a lick of difference.

Trust me when I tell you that the combinations and basic theories I laid out here are solid. They aren't an "always" answer, because as we are all well aware, there's no such thing as always in a fight. But they are very good rules of thumb, and they've been proven successful by fighters and coaches a hell of a lot better than me. Like all things combat related, they require set-up, preparation, and above all, lots and lots of training and experience before they're reliable. However, once you get there, they work more often than they fail.

But don't take my word for it. Go train it and try it. You'll see.

i agree with the combos you put up, your post was very good. i was simply pointing out that southpaws are aware of their weaknesses because your post, to me, made it sound like they were just inherently weaker because of it.
IF you are naturally a southpaw:
Youll naturally be stronger with your left,dont fight nature, roll with it.
Youll find it easier to train your left to be your stronger side.
You will do better to keep your strong side to the rear as it will come under less attack and remain strong.
You will be used to fighting right handed people and have an advantage in experience against right handers which 90% are. you will be used to getting that right cross more than righties are used to leading with it.

Given the above i find it very hard to justify going against those points. Being a southpaw is an advantage, it has always been considered as an advantage due to the uneven balance of rights vs left.
i would say you would have been even better in your natural stance, id bet on it in fact if it were provable, but it isnt.

i didnt realise that was your instructor, i appologise. i retract what i said if it was offensive and change it to that i simply dont agree with it at all, but such is life.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Interesting to note, then, that there have only ever been a handful of the southpaws in the world who managed to make it to the Championship level. Granted, southpaws are rarer, but the percentages are still waay lop-sided. Being a southpaw can be an advantage (that's why I generally fight that way), but not always. Righties and lefties both have strengths and weaknesses, and in every case, effectiveness is much more about how well you've trained than in how you stand.

As for the other points, no offense taken. I have only trained with Master Chai in seminars, and then only in the early nineties. Things may well have changed since then. He's not my instructor, but he is someone who consistently turns out great fighters, and even better instructors. I respect him supremely, but I don't really follow a lot of what he does because I'm not a Thai boxer. My point wasn't to make you feel ill at ease, or to seem like I was getting defensive. It was only to make the point that "lunacy" in martial arts is hard to define - especially if it's working so well for so many.

Good discussion, and please, let's keep it rolling. I'm in no way offended by your posts, and I hope sincerely that you're not offended by mine. I'm just looking at this as a good exchange of ideas and views.

nope not at all offended, glad you arent either as wasnt my intention, your posts are always contructive and well thought out.

Manny Pacquiao is southpaw and doing well, but anyway, i think the idea of choosing a side to fight in is more important when looking at systems that involve kicks.
I beleive that if you are left handed and therefore left leg dominant then that side will always have more potential to be stronger and more powerful than the naturally weaker side. therefore this should be exploited. the nature of stand up systems with kicking suggests its more logical to keep your powerful weapons to the rear as they can take advantage of better body mechanics from this position and you protect your powerful left leg from weakening strikes. The last thing you need is a ton of low kicks and a knee stomps etc on your strongest side because it presents the easier target.

in boxing the differences will be smaller, granted and the powerful jab would have an advantage but i think its offset by loss of a powerful cross. then you could argue though that right handed people should swap stance. it can go on and on.