Punching without gloves, which knuckles to use?

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

the two smaller knuckles on the outside are the ones that hurt me, my two bigger knuckles on the inside are the ones that hurt you.

[Ace Dutrey]

Is it me or is it just a bit scary to use your fingers in an attack? I mean the times I have fought on the street i either slapped the guy but with follow through (the pimp smack) i guess you could say open palm and used closed fists on the body and it has worked. I'm not some crazy ill fighter but by no means am I a newbie and it feels like at any moment your fingers are so small compared to your intended target that the SLIGHTEST miscalculation and they will break. I'm not trying to say that they don't work but I can truly say that when I fight I'm not trying to pinpoint every single shot I'm doing combos on pure muscle memory. It just seems really hard to execute some finger techniques and so forth; maybe on someone with no skill but then again why would you pick on someone? Does this make any sense?

[johnmarkpainter]

Ace,

You aren't trying to poke a hole through their skull....

Imagine that you are trying to Flick water off of your fingers.
Making a loose fist and then popping your fingers off of your thumb.
To deliver it, just act like you are throwing a jab but flicking your fingers open at the end. Thrown like that you won't likely jam your fingers if you hit a hard target but if you find an EYE....OUCH.

You don't need to put a lot of power behind it so it can be delivered very quickly and from unexpected angles.

jmp

[Ghost]

For bare knuckle aim for the nose and cheeks, aiming for the jawline only when you have them nearly done. this is ideal, obviously take any shot you can.

Open hand strikes are not so good. The argument of it being impossible to fight bareknuckle with closed hands is nonsense, youtube>kimbo
you will see its very possible.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Ace Dutrey

Is it me or is it just a bit scary to use your fingers in an attack? I mean the times I have fought on the street i either slapped the guy but with follow through (the pimp smack) i guess you could say open palm and used closed fists on the body and it has worked. I'm not some crazy ill fighter but by no means am I a newbie and it feels like at any moment your fingers are so small compared to your intended target that the SLIGHTEST miscalculation and they will break. I'm not trying to say that they don't work but I can truly say that when I fight I'm not trying to pinpoint every single shot I'm doing combos on pure muscle memory. It just seems really hard to execute some finger techniques and so forth; maybe on someone with no skill but then again why would you pick on someone? Does this make any sense?

finger jabs and so on are a bad idea, if someone uses them against you to the eyes just tip your head down and their fingers will hit your forehead, you can actively launch your head forwards in a headbutt manner and you stand a good chance of breaking their fingers then. you cant really miss either which is good news.
This sounds silly but it works with normal punches too. In thailand it is taught as a technique and in my first month in thailand i saw a boxer at the gym i was training at snap someones forearm with this with the bone ending up poking through the skin. hurts the head but works. im rambling AGAIN.

[FLMKane]

Originally Posted by GQchris

I have read books that have said when punching someone without a glove, to use the last two knuckles of your hand as the aiming point, but my boxing coach has said it is the first two knuckles?

Can some of you badass boxers/martial artists give me your perspective? Thanks.

If you dont have trained fists, punch with the first two knuckles to reduce injuries. But punching with your last two knuckles is WAY more powerful. Simple reason:the wieght of your hand acts through the little finger knuckle. When you shift your weight to punch, the force goes through that knuckle.

My advice to you, is to get a body bag...and punch it without wearing gloves, with the last two knuckles as the aiming point. It'll hurt for a while, but with two months of punching for half an hour a day, you should be able to break clay pots without feeling pain.Thats when you start punching with the last two knuckles.

If your coach still has problems, shut him up with this.

http://www.freecirclefighting.com/jdbook.pdf

[Ghost]

lol thats old man, no one punches like this anymore.
It was thrown out decades ago for a more powerful method.

That book is useful but it is out of date now.

For your own reference the reason its not used is in his own book. Although he is trying to avoid this..but i will quote
"Unfortunately, however, the hand-bone behind the little knuckle is the most fragile of the five backbones. It can be broken the most easily.
You must not attempt to land first with the little knuckle."


And you just never really avoid breaking these knuckles when you punch without gloves against someone face. Even if you try to distribute the power as he says, it doesnt work ultimately. Which is why it was dropped. As technique improved and became more powerful then the standard punch of today took over.
The powerline of the rotated horizontal fist is to the large knuckles, they are also much stronger. Its a no contest im afraid as to which style is superior. Hence why it is used.

Originally Posted by FLMKane

If you dont have trained fists, punch with the first two knuckles to reduce injuries. But punching with your last two knuckles is WAY more powerful. Simple reason:the wieght of your hand acts through the little finger knuckle. When you shift your weight to punch, the force goes through that knuckle.

My advice to you, is to get a body bag...and punch it without wearing gloves, with the last two knuckles as the aiming point. It'll hurt for a while, but with two months of punching for half an hour a day, you should be able to break clay pots without feeling pain.Thats when you start punching with the last two knuckles.

If your coach still has problems, shut him up with this.

http://www.freecirclefighting.com/jdbook.pdf

[FLMKane]

Seriously, I stated most of what you said in my post if you would read carefully. And old is not always out of date. And no the powerline is ALWAYS the same. And you dont break those knuckles if you train them properly. I also stated until you train those knuckles stick to convention

Also I dont think you know who your talking to. I'm a sifu in Kung Fu. I got there by something called a rank challenge. Basically I beat the crap out of a black belt...then ripped it off him.

As for old man... dude, that guy was an animal...

[Ghost]

LOL,
why are you so angry, im simply telling you how it is now and where boxing is at.

Originally Posted by FLMKane

Seriously, I stated most of what you said in my post if you would read carefully. And old is not always out of date. And no the powerline is ALWAYS the same. And you dont break those knuckles if you train them properly. I also stated until you train those knuckles stick to convention

Also I dont think you know who your talking to. I'm a sifu in Kung Fu. I got there by something called a rank challenge. Basically I beat the crap out of a black belt...then ripped it off him.

As for old man... dude, that guy was an animal...

[FLMKane]

I'm not angry. And I know how it is now. I train with boxers.

[Ghost]

Then you know they dont do their straight right nor their right cross like that then.

Originally Posted by FLMKane

I'm not angry. And I know how it is now. I train with boxers.

[FLMKane]

Yeah I do. Your thinking in a linear pattern. I USE a right cross instead of the flashy kung fu junk.

And if your still thinking about the knuckles argument, as stated before, the first two knuckles wont break easily, but IF YOU TRAIN the powerline knucke, IT WONT BREAK! Therein lies my answer to you. IF YOU TRAIN! For a guy who does'nt train, he should, by all means, stick to the big two knuckles.

And dont generalize. Jack Dempsey was Mike Tysons idol. Cus D'Amato trained him as an advanced model of Dempsey... if you seen videos of Mike train, he never uses gloves...and punches with the powerline. look carefully and ALI and FRAZIER punched like that.

The reason that the little finger knuckle is the powerline knuckle is quite wierd. The forearm has two bones, one larger than the other. The large one is directly connected to the elbow joint.When force is transmitted down the elbow joint, most of it travels down the larger bone. From that bone, the most direct path is through the little finger knuckle. It's simple physics.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by FLMKane

.....
Also I dont think you know who your talking to. I'm a sifu in Kung Fu. I got there by something called a rank challenge. Basically I beat the crap out of a black belt...then ripped it off him.

...

Oh, boy....

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by FLMKane

..."I USE a right cross instead of the flashy kung fu junk"....

Sifu of Kung phui... LOL

[Tant01]

Which knuckles?

Check out the anatomy yourself. The most efficient force transfer will be delivered through a NUTRAL wrist position. With a PROPER (nutral) wrist position relative to the LINE of force your BIG knuckles will align with the forearm.

But don't take my word for anything!