Pre-UFC: Boxing vs. Judo - Page 3

bigboywasim · 04-06-2008, 06:23 PM

If you have no grappling background then even without the GI you are going to get tossed on your head against a Judo guy. I take boxing and judo apart from many other things. If it is all else even then I have money on the Judo guy. The reason is the judo guy can keep it on the ground once it gets their. The boxer cannot keep it standing. He will fall unless he gets the KO in a quick time period.

One on One grappling is superior to striking.

Michael Wright · 04-07-2008, 07:22 AM

In a combat sports environment I completely agree. The grappler will overcome the boxer 8 or 9 times out of ten, gi or no gi, its been proven over and over.

In a street situation my experience is the exact opposite. It starts and ends in conversation range, and punching is king.

Just in my personal experience.

Mike Brewer · 04-07-2008, 09:56 AM

In my experience, the fight goes to the first guy to act, whatever the style. The guy who attacks while the opponent is still negotiating or posturing is the winner 90% of the time. I've personally seen a lot more streetfights end standing up than on the ground, but I chalk that up to the willingness of strikers to hit first, and to the relative proximity in which most street encounters happen. Grapplers often find themselves close, but out of position to apply a lot of what they do. It doesn't mean it doens't work, but strikes tend to come faster (and sooner).

With that said, one of the most horrible fights I ever saw was a lingering group foray at a bar in Arkansas. We (the bouncers) had to clear out the floor at closing time, and several folks got combative. It was basically a one-to-one ratio, so we each threw someone out and called it a night. Really uneventful - except for the last fight. One of our bouncers was a seriously strong (as a friend of mine likes to put it, he had "retard-farmer strength") and he grabbed the guy he was fighting around the wasit as the guy shot for a takedown. Basically, he hoisted the guy up in the air, holding him upside down around the waist. Then, in slow, horrible motion, he kicked his feet out like a pro-wrestler and dropped the dude right on the cement dance floor, right on his head. He landed on top of the kid so hard he managed to break his own ribs, but the kid he dropped was bleeding from the nose and ears and was completely unconscious, likely with a closed head injury. It was very, very bad - and it still stands out in my mind as an example of what happens when two guys "agree" to grapple.

Tom Yum · 04-07-2008, 06:54 PM

Is retard-farmer strength like old man strength?

Mike Brewer · 04-08-2008, 11:19 AM

Not at all, Tom. I believe the term is largely complimentary. It's a nod to the awesome natural strength that retarded folks and farmers tend to have. I used to help my grandfather and the delivery guys unload hay bales when they were delivered to his farm when I was a kid, and there was an middle aged black hay farmer by the name of Leroy, and that man was my idol growing up. He could hurl those 120 pound, four-wire hay bales two stories up into the hay loft of the barn one-handed! He was probably 6'5" and every ounce of 350 pounds. Wore overalls with no shirt on underneath. No shit. And he was STTRRRRROOOOONNNGGG. At that time, his hands were as big as my torso, and I remember admiring not only his brute power but his gentlemanly, southern demeanor.

Likewise, my step-brother from my Mom's second marriage was mentally retarded, and he was one of the strongest humans I'd ever met. About 6' tall and maybe 180 or so, he was a powerhouse wrestler.

I always took the term "old-man strength" to be that deceptive, sneaky power that comes from timing and well-placed shots more than brute, ugly strength. I could be wrong. Colloquialisms are odd that way.

Tant01 · 04-08-2008, 12:22 PM

There's an old "Iron Man" boxing article that goes into some detail about why and how the "Old School" toughness came about. Need to find it again...

Many of the farmers I know are handy with sharp tools and smart enough to know when they need a bigger hammer.

You can tell by a handshake how strong their hands are...

Tant01 · 04-08-2008, 12:41 PM

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/ironmen.html

This article first appeared in June 2005 at Fightbeat.com

Mike Brewer · 04-08-2008, 01:24 PM

Absolutely awesome article. Great read!

04-06-2008, 06:23 PM	#31 (permalink)
bigboywasim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: California, Sacramento Posts: 384	If you have no grappling background then even without the GI you are going to get tossed on your head against a Judo guy. I take boxing and judo apart from many other things. If it is all else even then I have money on the Judo guy. The reason is the judo guy can keep it on the ground once it gets their. The boxer cannot keep it standing. He will fall unless he gets the KO in a quick time period. One on One grappling is superior to striking. __________________

04-07-2008, 06:54 PM	#34 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,179	Is retard-farmer strength like old man strength? __________________ The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. Slow is fast; fast is slow. Love it, leave it or fix it.

04-08-2008, 12:22 PM	#36 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,553	There's an old "Iron Man" boxing article that goes into some detail about why and how the "Old School" toughness came about. Need to find it again... Many of the farmers I know are handy with sharp tools and smart enough to know when they need a bigger hammer. You can tell by a handshake how strong their hands are... __________________ While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties. T. Shidachi, 1892

04-08-2008, 12:41 PM	#37 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,553	http://coxscorner.tripod.com/ironmen.html This article first appeared in June 2005 at Fightbeat.com __________________ While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties. T. Shidachi, 1892

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04-07-2008, 07:22 AM	#32 (permalink)
Michael Wright Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 894	In a combat sports environment I completely agree. The grappler will overcome the boxer 8 or 9 times out of ten, gi or no gi, its been proven over and over. In a street situation my experience is the exact opposite. It starts and ends in conversation range, and punching is king. Just in my personal experience.

04-07-2008, 09:56 AM	#33 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,094	In my experience, the fight goes to the first guy to act, whatever the style. The guy who attacks while the opponent is still negotiating or posturing is the winner 90% of the time. I've personally seen a lot more streetfights end standing up than on the ground, but I chalk that up to the willingness of strikers to hit first, and to the relative proximity in which most street encounters happen. Grapplers often find themselves close, but out of position to apply a lot of what they do. It doesn't mean it doens't work, but strikes tend to come faster (and sooner). With that said, one of the most horrible fights I ever saw was a lingering group foray at a bar in Arkansas. We (the bouncers) had to clear out the floor at closing time, and several folks got combative. It was basically a one-to-one ratio, so we each threw someone out and called it a night. Really uneventful - except for the last fight. One of our bouncers was a seriously strong (as a friend of mine likes to put it, he had "retard-farmer strength") and he grabbed the guy he was fighting around the wasit as the guy shot for a takedown. Basically, he hoisted the guy up in the air, holding him upside down around the waist. Then, in slow, horrible motion, he kicked his feet out like a pro-wrestler and dropped the dude right on the cement dance floor, right on his head. He landed on top of the kid so hard he managed to break his own ribs, but the kid he dropped was bleeding from the nose and ears and was completely unconscious, likely with a closed head injury. It was very, very bad - and it still stands out in my mind as an example of what happens when two guys "agree" to grapple.

04-08-2008, 11:19 AM	#35 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,094	Not at all, Tom. I believe the term is largely complimentary. It's a nod to the awesome natural strength that retarded folks and farmers tend to have. I used to help my grandfather and the delivery guys unload hay bales when they were delivered to his farm when I was a kid, and there was an middle aged black hay farmer by the name of Leroy, and that man was my idol growing up. He could hurl those 120 pound, four-wire hay bales two stories up into the hay loft of the barn one-handed! He was probably 6'5" and every ounce of 350 pounds. Wore overalls with no shirt on underneath. No shit. And he was STTRRRRROOOOONNNGGG. At that time, his hands were as big as my torso, and I remember admiring not only his brute power but his gentlemanly, southern demeanor. Likewise, my step-brother from my Mom's second marriage was mentally retarded, and he was one of the strongest humans I'd ever met. About 6' tall and maybe 180 or so, he was a powerhouse wrestler. I always took the term "old-man strength" to be that deceptive, sneaky power that comes from timing and well-placed shots more than brute, ugly strength. I could be wrong. Colloquialisms are odd that way.

04-08-2008, 01:24 PM	#38 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,094	Absolutely awesome article. Great read!

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