The Ultimate in Martial Arts

choylifutrocks · 11-19-2003, 04:55 AM

Ok, I see two words in that title that definately do not go well together. Shaolin and Karate. I can't seem to find any concrete information about this "thing" other than it claims to be China's, as well as the worlds, oldest martial art. It sounds funny, but before I start throwing words around, does anyone know what it is. Just out of curiousity.

huey · 11-19-2003, 06:08 AM

i can't say for certain but it may be a marketing gimmick since karate is more of a common title for institional instruction than kung fu.

Tjang · 11-19-2003, 06:15 AM

Well, I have no idea either. Perhaps the word “karate” is attached because it is thought to be more well known? Or perhaps the school really teach both the blending of “kempo” and “karate”? Perhaps it will be better if some students of the school can throw a little light to us.

IPON · 11-19-2003, 08:49 PM

I don't know much about ity either but you can check out this link maybe helpfu There are some vid clips on this site as well

http://www.nyshorinji.org/

Shorinji Kempo History

In 1928, Doshin So, the founder (also referred to as Kaiso) traveled through China studying as he did so various forms of Chinese Kempo. Under the guidance of the head of the North Shaolin Giwamonken School of Kempo, Wen-Lanshi, Doshin So studied its techniques in great depth, including the practice of embu, a kata-like form that requires two people to perform pre-arranged fighting sequences. In 1936, at a ceremony at the Shaolin Temple, Doshin So became the official successor to this style. It should be noted that the word "Shorinji" is the Japanese pronunciation of "Shaolin." Therefore, Shorinji Kempo translates to Shaolin Temple Boxing (or Fist Method).

"The person! The person! Everything depends on the quality of the person!"
- Doshin So

Experiencing the Russian Army's occupation of Manchuria at the end of the Second World War, Kaiso concluded that the course of the world's events was not dependent on ideology, religion or nationalism, but on the quality of the individual person and particular actions, especially at difficult or critical moments. This conclusion strongly influenced the shaping of Shorinji Kempo and its philosophical base.

Returning to the devastation of postwar Japan, Kaiso found the youth of his homeland discouraged, and with little, if any, sense of purpose. His great concern for their moral welfare and the future of his country caused him to devote his life to training young people, with "courage, strength, mercy and a sense of justice," principles that in the fullness of time would find international acceptance.

Kaiso reformed and revised the martial art techniques that he had studied in China, and added to them his philosophical insights to create Shorinji Kempo. As both a training place and sanctorium he established the Shorinji Kempo hombu (headquarters) dojo on the Island of Shikoku, Kagawa Prefecture, in the town of Tadotsu. The original 12 square meter dojo behind his house in Tadotsu has grown over the years into a very substantial training facility, to which students from all over the world come to train.

On May 12 1980 Kaiso died of heart disease. Since then, his daughter, Yuki So, has continued his work as the head of the Shorinji Kempo movement. Currently the world federation Kaiso formed is called the World Shorinji Kempo Organization (WSKO) - a federation of all Shorinji Kempo dojos around the world. Countries outside of Japan have national, and sometimes regional federations, where they periodically meet together as a group. Worldwide, there are about 1.7 million members at 3,000 dojos in 27 countries. In the United States, there are currently around 27 dojos.

choylifutrocks · 11-20-2003, 03:58 AM

Ok, from what I've found so far about it's history, I've still only conflicting stories. There seems to be no real lineage. For example, here is another school who is claiming Shaolin (shorinji) Kempo Karate, their information is completely different from that at nyshorinji.com, which IPON provided: http://www.ussd.com/

I am not interested in this style for self defense. I'm only interested in understanding what it is supposed to be, and where it supposedly came from.

I downloaded a couple of the videos from http://www.nyshorinji.com and there were some well rehearsed scenes, but for the most part, they were guarding their knees with their front hand

. I also saw a jumping kick included in one of their takes, hehe.

IPON · 11-20-2003, 07:42 AM

the info from United studioes is definately more in depth. I guess it is the confusion over what is kempo. I assumed that since many chinese were forced/influenced to study karate that kempo was taken and further influenced by Shoalin, but I am still suprised that the art would be taught at the monastary. I assumed that it was a combination of kempo and the kung fu learned at the monatary

choylifutrocks · 11-21-2003, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IPON
but I am still suprised that the art would be taught at the monastary. I assumed that it was a combination of kempo and the kung fu learned at the monatary [/B]

Exactly...I don't understand what Chinese Monks have to do with Japanese martial arts. I understand that martial influence can come from anywhere, but it still is quite weird. I also do not see what Chinese Monks would be doing practicing Japanese arts...maybe I'm missing something.
Also last I checked China and Japan don't really like to give each other credit for anything, especially martial arts. Anyone who has seen a Bruce Lee movie knows what I'm talking about

Jeremy · 04-02-2004, 12:01 AM

"Shaolin Kempo Karate" is an art that takes parts of Shaolin Kung-fu, Kempo, and Karate, and mixes them all together.

chris davis 200 · 04-02-2004, 08:04 AM

oh dear!

I always smile when i see such things - mixing up some languages n such!

It just screams ' pants ' at you when you have knowledge of authentic systems.

Kempo is basically empty hand techniques and constitutes various parts of most traditional Japanese Ryu ha - i.e = Aiki Kempo from Daito ryu which is very different to karate etc.

But in the west most Kempo schools are based in Karate with Kyusho mixed in. Ed parker etc.

Karate came from southern shaolin systems such as Taizu. originally translated as China Hand - the kanji meaning were changed due to the Japanese / chinese relationship to mean Empty hand.

Shaolin (little/young forest) in Japanese is Shorinji - as is seen in Shorinji kempo. thus if an authentic japanese systems it should be Shorinji Kempo Karate.

Shaolin has hundreds of distinct styles - running in family lineages such as hung gar and wing chun or still practiced at the temple, 5 animals etc. To say shaolin mixed with ..whatever... is just stupid. By shaolin do you mean all the shaolin styles and their derivatives? many of which very closley resemble kempo and karate styles. If so then fairplay who ever created this mish mash must be about 900 years old - having mastered such an array of techniques!

Any guy that creates an art but cant be bothered to look at the right translation and thus just mixes Japanese and Chinese language together makes me think - i cant be bothered!

chris

Jeremy · 04-02-2004, 01:45 PM

Ok, I reckon they call it Shaolin Kempo Karate and not Shorinji kempo karate, because it's more proper to do so. "Shorin" was just the bastardized Japanese pronounciation of "shaolin" at the time. If you were standing on a street in Tokyo today and used the word "shorin," then people would probably think you're talking about a type of book store. If you said "shaorin" or "shaolin," then people would understand that you're refering to the temple in China.

Other than that, I was referring to shaolin kempo karate (ala villari), not shaolin kempo, which some people (inappropriately?) call shaolin kempo karate.

Quote:

Any guy that creates an art but cant be bothered to look at the right translation and thus just mixes Japanese and Chinese language together makes me think - i cant be bothered!

Think about it: it's a mix of chinese and japanese arts. I personally don't see anything wrong with reflecting that in the name by mixing Chinese and Japanese words.

Quote:

Shaolin has hundreds of distinct styles - running in family lineages such as hung gar and wing chun or still practiced at the temple, 5 animals etc. To say shaolin mixed with ..whatever... is just stupid. By shaolin do you mean all the shaolin styles and their derivatives?

Primarily 5 animal. Although, there are also other techniques from monkey, white tiger, and perhaps others.

m.artist · 04-02-2004, 08:31 PM

i went to the website and checked out the clips, and images, and read the history, and faq. and i have to say, im impressed. i love the way their system is set up. i like it very much. if i were to ever go to nyc i would definetly love to check it out. my 2 cents

jmd161 · 04-03-2004, 03:42 PM

The mixing of Chinese and Japanese such as Shaolin Kempo Karate is a marketing tool. It is people looking to gain students and acceptence off of the mixing of such name.

Shaolin is chinese.

Karate is japanese

kempo/kenpo is from okinawa

In okinawa there was a mix of chinese and japanese and techniques were exchanged. So some chinese arts and techniques found their way into the mix. But what ppl like to do is point to Chuna Fa/Quan Fa and use this as their link to shaolin. Although Chuan Fa/Quan Fa does mean "Fist Method" in chinese. It's not the same as how ,many people try to make it seem.

So many people misunderstand when they translate the word and link it to japanese arts ,but that is not the case.

jeff

Jeremy · 04-03-2004, 08:29 PM

I just felt like pointing out that the chinese word "Quan fa" and the japanese word "Kempo" are exactly the same. That is, they are both written "拳法." The English translation for 拳法 is "chinese boxing."

jmd161 · 04-03-2004, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

I just felt like pointing out that the chinese word "Quan fa" and the japanese word "Kempo" are exactly the same. That is, they are both written "拳法." The English translation for 拳法 is "chinese boxing."

yes, they are the same that's why people confuse them ,and link them together. It's actually "Fist Method" but the chinese when translated refers to chinese boxing.

jeff

**Thai Bri** · 04-04-2004, 03:13 AM

Where have you been! You still reckon tha this Black Tiger wotsit is the best thing since sliced bread?

11-19-2003, 04:55 AM	#1 (permalink)
choylifutrocks Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: California Posts: 247 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Shaolin Kempo Karate Ok, I see two words in that title that definately do not go well together. Shaolin and Karate. I can't seem to find any concrete information about this "thing" other than it claims to be China's, as well as the worlds, oldest martial art. It sounds funny, but before I start throwing words around, does anyone know what it is. Just out of curiousity. __________________ (1) "If you're having a hard time making a point you probably don't have one." -- ChoyLiFutRocks (2) "I hate hippies" -- ChoyLiFutRocks (3) "Hippies put the 'MENTAL' in Environmental Protection Agency." -- ChoyLiFutRocks

11-19-2003, 08:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
IPON Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 1,573 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I don't know much about ity either but you can check out this link maybe helpfu There are some vid clips on this site as well http://www.nyshorinji.org/ Shorinji Kempo History In 1928, Doshin So, the founder (also referred to as Kaiso) traveled through China studying as he did so various forms of Chinese Kempo. Under the guidance of the head of the North Shaolin Giwamonken School of Kempo, Wen-Lanshi, Doshin So studied its techniques in great depth, including the practice of embu, a kata-like form that requires two people to perform pre-arranged fighting sequences. In 1936, at a ceremony at the Shaolin Temple, Doshin So became the official successor to this style. It should be noted that the word "Shorinji" is the Japanese pronunciation of "Shaolin." Therefore, Shorinji Kempo translates to Shaolin Temple Boxing (or Fist Method). "The person! The person! Everything depends on the quality of the person!" - Doshin So Experiencing the Russian Army's occupation of Manchuria at the end of the Second World War, Kaiso concluded that the course of the world's events was not dependent on ideology, religion or nationalism, but on the quality of the individual person and particular actions, especially at difficult or critical moments. This conclusion strongly influenced the shaping of Shorinji Kempo and its philosophical base. Returning to the devastation of postwar Japan, Kaiso found the youth of his homeland discouraged, and with little, if any, sense of purpose. His great concern for their moral welfare and the future of his country caused him to devote his life to training young people, with "courage, strength, mercy and a sense of justice," principles that in the fullness of time would find international acceptance. Kaiso reformed and revised the martial art techniques that he had studied in China, and added to them his philosophical insights to create Shorinji Kempo. As both a training place and sanctorium he established the Shorinji Kempo hombu (headquarters) dojo on the Island of Shikoku, Kagawa Prefecture, in the town of Tadotsu. The original 12 square meter dojo behind his house in Tadotsu has grown over the years into a very substantial training facility, to which students from all over the world come to train. On May 12 1980 Kaiso died of heart disease. Since then, his daughter, Yuki So, has continued his work as the head of the Shorinji Kempo movement. Currently the world federation Kaiso formed is called the World Shorinji Kempo Organization (WSKO) - a federation of all Shorinji Kempo dojos around the world. Countries outside of Japan have national, and sometimes regional federations, where they periodically meet together as a group. Worldwide, there are about 1.7 million members at 3,000 dojos in 27 countries. In the United States, there are currently around 27 dojos. __________________ A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

11-20-2003, 03:58 AM	#5 (permalink)
choylifutrocks Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: California Posts: 247 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok, from what I've found so far about it's history, I've still only conflicting stories. There seems to be no real lineage. For example, here is another school who is claiming Shaolin (shorinji) Kempo Karate, their information is completely different from that at nyshorinji.com, which IPON provided: http://www.ussd.com/ I am not interested in this style for self defense. I'm only interested in understanding what it is supposed to be, and where it supposedly came from. I downloaded a couple of the videos from http://www.nyshorinji.com and there were some well rehearsed scenes, but for the most part, they were guarding their knees with their front hand . I also saw a jumping kick included in one of their takes, hehe. __________________ (1) "If you're having a hard time making a point you probably don't have one." -- ChoyLiFutRocks (2) "I hate hippies" -- ChoyLiFutRocks (3) "Hippies put the 'MENTAL' in Environmental Protection Agency." -- ChoyLiFutRocks

11-20-2003, 07:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
IPON Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 1,573 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	the info from United studioes is definately more in depth. I guess it is the confusion over what is kempo. I assumed that since many chinese were forced/influenced to study karate that kempo was taken and further influenced by Shoalin, but I am still suprised that the art would be taught at the monastary. I assumed that it was a combination of kempo and the kung fu learned at the monatary __________________ A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

04-02-2004, 08:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
chris davis 200 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: UK Posts: 724 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	oh dear! I always smile when i see such things - mixing up some languages n such! It just screams ' pants ' at you when you have knowledge of authentic systems. Kempo is basically empty hand techniques and constitutes various parts of most traditional Japanese Ryu ha - i.e = Aiki Kempo from Daito ryu which is very different to karate etc. But in the west most Kempo schools are based in Karate with Kyusho mixed in. Ed parker etc. Karate came from southern shaolin systems such as Taizu. originally translated as China Hand - the kanji meaning were changed due to the Japanese / chinese relationship to mean Empty hand. Shaolin (little/young forest) in Japanese is Shorinji - as is seen in Shorinji kempo. thus if an authentic japanese systems it should be Shorinji Kempo Karate. Shaolin has hundreds of distinct styles - running in family lineages such as hung gar and wing chun or still practiced at the temple, 5 animals etc. To say shaolin mixed with ..whatever... is just stupid. By shaolin do you mean all the shaolin styles and their derivatives? many of which very closley resemble kempo and karate styles. If so then fairplay who ever created this mish mash must be about 900 years old - having mastered such an array of techniques! Any guy that creates an art but cant be bothered to look at the right translation and thus just mixes Japanese and Chinese language together makes me think - i cant be bothered! chris __________________ "Be alert. Be alive in the moment. Don’t imagine anyone who comes and asks you to ‘push’ or ‘spar’ will keep to a format, or even stay barehanded" my ba gua teacher !!

11-19-2003, 06:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
huey Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: central california Posts: 97 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i can't say for certain but it may be a marketing gimmick since karate is more of a common title for institional instruction than kung fu.

11-19-2003, 06:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tjang Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bandung City, West Java Province, Indonesia Posts: 57 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, I have no idea either. Perhaps the word “karate” is attached because it is thought to be more well known? Or perhaps the school really teach both the blending of “kempo” and “karate”? Perhaps it will be better if some students of the school can throw a little light to us.

04-02-2004, 12:01 AM	#8 (permalink)
Jeremy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 12 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	"Shaolin Kempo Karate" is an art that takes parts of Shaolin Kung-fu, Kempo, and Karate, and mixes them all together.

04-02-2004, 08:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
m.artist Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 919 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i went to the website and checked out the clips, and images, and read the history, and faq. and i have to say, im impressed. i love the way their system is set up. i like it very much. if i were to ever go to nyc i would definetly love to check it out. my 2 cents __________________ "Before you open your mouth to speak, please make sure it's an improvement upon the silence."

04-03-2004, 03:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
jmd161 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 243 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	The mixing of Chinese and Japanese such as Shaolin Kempo Karate is a marketing tool. It is people looking to gain students and acceptence off of the mixing of such name. Shaolin is chinese. Karate is japanese kempo/kenpo is from okinawa In okinawa there was a mix of chinese and japanese and techniques were exchanged. So some chinese arts and techniques found their way into the mix. But what ppl like to do is point to Chuna Fa/Quan Fa and use this as their link to shaolin. Although Chuan Fa/Quan Fa does mean "Fist Method" in chinese. It's not the same as how ,many people try to make it seem. So many people misunderstand when they translate the word and link it to japanese arts ,but that is not the case. jeff __________________ 少林黑虎門 To me the quest for truth is very well worth a black eye, broken nose or fat lip.-Cam McHargue

04-03-2004, 08:29 PM	#13 (permalink)
Jeremy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 12 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I just felt like pointing out that the chinese word "Quan fa" and the japanese word "Kempo" are exactly the same. That is, they are both written "拳法." The English translation for 拳法 is "chinese boxing."

04-04-2004, 03:13 AM	#15 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,413 Groans: 1 Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts	Where have you been! You still reckon tha this Black Tiger wotsit is the best thing since sliced bread?

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