krys

here comes william the man......

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Krys
MINDANAW SILAT ASLI

Hot Sauce

It all depends on the practioner....
bla bla bla I am better than [insert name here] and I can do this and that and I can fly.
some concrete information please



There is no power in the WC punch? Heehe, Post the reasons why you believe that the wc punch is weak. This is afterall a discussion board and not a board for statements.
Anyway you had a question mark after your sentence so here comes my view of the WingTsun Vertical Punch:
Our main goal with this punch is to generete a force, e huge one. We have the motto "One punch must kill" or somthing similiar. As we all know Force = mass * velocity^2. Lets look at this formula, the mass factor cannot be changed very much, perhaps if you train hard and gain fat or/and lots of muscles this can be changed. Velocity on the other hand can be trained so that you can punch faster,which also depends on the triceps and lats, beacuse it is the velocity upon impact that mathers the most according the formula.

When punching the vertical punch we train all the time to have all of our weight behind the punch and that we are genereting as much power as possible from the joints. Our punch is very fast since we train a lot with chainpunches on mits, makiwaras/wallbags, sandbags, you name it. An avrage WT practioner punches at least 5-6 punches/s. I wouldn't like anyone to punch me with a WT punch. Go to a dojo and find out or search the net if you don't believe me, this has been discussed before.


It depends on what your goal is, mine is self-defence. and not going to town and pick fights with everyone that I encounter which is not legal where I live.


Mike Tyson is a pussy, right William?

William Eriepa

There have been way to many threads on how great and wonderful wing chun is, and I have not the motivation to see the same results come out time and time again.

Dumbass. Your talking about power not force. Force is the exertion of strength. If your main goal is to generate great strength then you might as well become a power lifter.
Nonono. The formula you are looking for is Power = Force x Velocity (P=FV). And both strength and speed play an equal role in the generation of power.

And in boxing your weight is distrubuted over the lead leg. Your torso bent forward, and your head tucked forward, so when you punch absolutely all of your weight is behind your punch, unlike your 50/50 wing chun weight distrubution.

Boy, you aint ever gonna be able to defend yourself in a fight if you aint conditioned to fight.

And Mike Tyson is a dumbass, with little balls, and a fetish for ears.

Tameo

Boxing has good offence but horrible defence. Wing Chun has good offence and good defence.

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Tom Yum

Correction: Force = Mass * Acceleration ; Momentum = Mass * Velocity

Punching in physics is described as an elastic collision between two masses. Elastic means that they bounce off of each other with a change in momentum.

The contact force of an object = (mass * velocity) / contact time

Your partial body mass behind your punch can be considered mass and snap/quick retraction reduce the contact time and maximize the velocity.

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Love it, leave it or fix it.

shadowkiller

Horrible defense? Whered you get that idea? Most boxers can evade punches very well. Its called slipping punches...

Boxers have a defense for punching, because that is what the sport focuses on. Most street fights usually end up being mostly punching contests. So they have a very usefull offense and defense. If the sport used legs I bet they would have some sort of defense too. Sorta like kickboxing.....

krys

What Hot Sauce meant was (translational) kinetic energy Ec = .5*mass * speed^2......

actually what really matters in a fight is relative speed, ie your speed relative to your opponents spedd....

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Krys
MINDANAW SILAT ASLI

Hot Sauce

You have to excuse me, my english isn't so good. But still you haven't told us why the wc punch has no power.

[quote=William Eriepa]
And in boxing your weight is distrubuted over the lead leg. Your torso bent forward, and your head tucked forward, so when you punch absolutely all of your weight is behind your punch, unlike your 50/50 wing chun weight distrubution.
QUOTE]
50/50? that depends on which linage. WT has 100 procent on the back leg when we are in the front stance, which also means we have all weight behind when we are punching

In WT we try not to get hit by "deflecting" the incoming attack while protecting our center line where all our vital organs are. At same time attacking the opponent. I believe they call it Simultaneous Attack & Defence.

I and Mike Tyson are dumbasses and you are what? stop flaming.. act like you are mature even if might be a 14 year old horny school kid with no brains.

kcigam

Actually, with the WT punch, you're also adding to mass since the punch is centreline and straight, the mass of the forearm is supporting the mass of the fist (think of why a spear only requires a small force to penetrate), as is the mass of the entire body (if needed) if performing advancing step during the punch.

The mass and strength of a strong boxing punch comes from rotating the hips and from the shoulders, and takes energy and valuable time to perform. By the time the boxer winds up, the wt-er has already landed his first punch, which would probably be all that is needed.

Now the boxer's jab is a whole other story, but if you're throwing fast straight punches, you might as well be throwing wt punches

Thai Bri

Forget the badly thought out physics. Show us all where a WC punch actually knocked anyone out.

ps - you wouldn't have to look too hard to find boxwers doing it, and thats including big pieces of rubbery foam on their knuckles!

kcigam

Thai, you're a practical to-the-point kind of guy and I like that It has been done in practise because I've seen it and even done it once. Granted I can't provide evidence of this short of getting the poor sap who was on the receiving end to join this forum, but I don't think that's happening

Don't get me wrong, the boxer's punch is formulated to knock a guy out and there's plenty of footage to back that up. The thing is that there are a lot of WT students who don't care about how they throw a punch, they just want to look like Emin and throw 1 million/sec and it ends up looking like a slapfest rather than a chain of serious damaging punches. Those punches wouldn't hurt a fly, but one fully extended WT punch has enough power that it needs. It may not knock out a tougher guy in a single hit like one of tyson's hits, but it's not trying to either.

Thai Bri

WC boasts speed. And I have certainly witnessed that. But one boxing punch is much faster than a chain of WC punches so, of course, WC doesn't get the job done with speed at all!

Believe me, I'd love to find good WC near me. I'd sign up today. The closest I got was on another forum where I got an email from a guy inviting me to go and watch his Master train.

I was well up for it. But guess what? On reflection they decided that I didn't deserve to be in their exclusive little group. I wonder why........

sirmattu

you can do the most boxing moves the same without changing them if you stay in a straight stance or one like it... with most boxing moves you pivit into one anyway.

kcigam

I see your point Thai. The only response I could think of to that is that a single boxing punch could miss/be dodged while a series of chain punches is much harder to handle.

Personally I'm a skeptic by nature so I didn't believe all I heard about WT when I first had started it, but I guess I proved myself wrong since I've been able to use it with surprising effectiveness against guys who were both western-style and chinese/japanese/korean-style fighters. And there are definitely schools that do a terrible job of teaching their students how to actually FIGHT with it and not just get really really good at throwing fast ineffective punches. The school in my area is pretty good ("if you can't throw 1 damn good punch, why are you trying to throw 4?") and there are a couple good schools (or so I hear) in New York and Germany.

Personally, it's not the boxer that scares me, its the shooto or BJJ fighter who would take me to the ground.

Thai Bri

That is very true. It would be like a runner entering a swimming race.......

But, of course, there is "Anti Grappling". And that has proven beyond doubt that, if a Wing Chun believer attacks you with a half hearted and badly performed shoot, you'd be able to anti grapple him!