Thai Bri

Wong Shung Leung.....tell me. Who did he fight again?

Seismic Anamoly

The Wing Chun would suffer from the mixing boxing (to a certain degree). there is no doubt the severity of punching and trapping would be notoriously powerful, but the principals would be conflicting. Also, wing chun's central premise is "less is more". The more you add on, the more clunky you get.

You are right on that point about Boxing vs. Wing Chun. At some point you have to be pretty damned skilled at WC to fend off a seasoned boxer. Few people train at wing chun the way boxers train to box. Train a wing chun fighter to fight the way a boxer trains rigorously, and I'd put my money on the WC fighter.


-SA

Seismic Anamoly

[quote=IPON]If I am correct it is in boxing that Lee first got beaten and never went back (to actually fight). he could not take failure or the thought of loosing...too much ego.



That one is new to me. There is documentation (at the VTAA in Hong Kong) of Bruce Lee being on several tournament flyers. One also for a boxing match. As to the record of the fights, I'm not sure. As to "why" he left Wing Chun, well again, its a matter of "he said, she said, and the truth".


Yes, this is my understanding as well. I have heard a few stories but all with the same ending he was denied. One was when he started to formulate JKD and he showed "the old man" how good his sysytem was and he was essentially throw on his ass. But he did practice the first form everyday.


who was thrown on his ass? Lee or Ip Man? Lee kept very close to the WC people from when he left to when he started doing movies. He even used some of the WC people to choreograph some of his movies. So obviously, there was that close relation that remained. Hawkins Cheung I believe was very close to him around this time.


-SA

Seismic Anamoly

In Boxing or Wing Chun?

In Boxing you would have to do some leg work to find the boxing hall records at that time. Since he was boxing during this time (pre-wing chun) those records would exist somewhere I'm sure. In Wing Chun you'll have to ask his son personally or anyone that was there at the time. There is, however, some records of him fighting in tournaments after he learned wing chun. Now, if you're hinting that because some of his fights were "off the record" it couldn't possibly have happened, i guess you'll have to do the leg work yourself. People who knew him later in life saw a guy with alot of scars (lots of them) and people who "were there". Considering the nature of the fights and reputation, it wouldn't be a surprise that these were kept low-key. No different than other fighters who did bare-knuckle fighting in bars and gyms in New York and Chicago. They existed, but few things are on the record.

-SA

Thai Bri

I don't have to do any leg work. You come from a given premise that he knew how to fight. You use that premise upon which to base your arguments. Along the lines of "WC is better than boxing because WSL left boxing for it". But so what? That may merely mean that he couldn't cut any ice in such a hard game, so he went to the trad MA world for an easier time. You have not shown that your premise is true, and the onus is on you.

Back to topic - I agree that the principles are too conflicting to really mix and match WC and Boxing. It would be a bit like trying to learn how to ride/drive a car and a motorbike at the same time.

VTGreg

WSL used his boxing skills to fight anyone from any style, as he was wanting to find the best fighting system. It wasn't until he got manipulated by Yip Man (Yip Man didn't punch him up, but WSL acknowledged that he could have punched him at will), after first beating up his nephew. At that point he knew he had found a better system than the one he had and became a student almost immediately. WSL always said that if you had a better way of doing something - he wanted to know it, as he was always looking to improve as a fighter.

Personally I like the boxing/fencing footwork to deliver me to the opponent and then ground myself as I deliver my blows.

hEmPY

Tired of readin all this shit...

Boxin got enough idiots. When people throw large series we dont call them masters, we call'em idiots. Best of what we do against idiots is a side-step w/ uppercut, follow with a hook or cross; or jus' lean and when get up add an uppercut. "People when do series got a 'hole' in their defence", so you uppercut 'em, a nice fast short uppercut!

P.S. Step back, right straight, follow w/ left hook!
I have a video from kazaa, it is a WC/kyokushin fight. Guy throws large series. BAM! 1punch ko from karateka!

Thai Bri

I think all these Wing Chun guys are so incredible. Just think of the money they could win in pro boxing by using their superior technique. But they resist the temptation. Now how cool is that?

IPON

Hey Thai, I don't think that the issue was (or at least should noty be) WC is superior to boxing becuase WSL made a switch. I think the point was that WC is not a weak system that ppl may think. Becuase as a fighter WSL was kicking much ass then he challenged "the girl style" and got beat. Maybe it was just timing he may have had the same results with a Tai Chi practioner and got humbled.

__________________
A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

IPON

I am not saying Lee was not involved in Boxing matches I said he did not like to loose. After loosing a match he never went back this was documented (I will have to find a link). But this has nothing to do why he left WC, but I do believe this is the reason that Lee would not accept public challenges. He set himself up as being to great to fail.




Lee was throw on his ass (figuratively or literally I don't know). Again, the second point has nothing to do with the first. I did not say he did not have contact or relations with WC ppl. My understanding was, basically, he was full of himself with his "new" style and was humbled by the old man. In other words He felt he was equal or surpassing WC and YIP man showed him that he still had a lot to learn. Doesn't take anything away from Lee, he may have humbled 95% of the Kwoon, just not Yip Man. Also, I don't know the context, it may have been chi sao only not full sparring

__________________
A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

Thai Bri

But did any of this actually happen?

Errrrr. No.

IPON

uhh bri if you are referring to my comments you need to be more specific

__________________
A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

Thai Bri

Lee being bitchslapped by his WC daddy.

IPON

I will say this for the third time Bri yes that was my understanding. I am not stating as a fact as I was not a witness. Do I believe that it happened....that or something similar yes. Again, the context may not (and probably was not) all out sparring YIP man was very old at this time. It seems likely that Yip Man may have said "OK let's roll and see what you learned" But I have heard many stories about this with slight variations but they all end the same, Lee being humbled. This has nothing to do with the thread, I just posted that point in response to some else's post.

__________________
A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

Thai Bri

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