Wing Chun - an overview of its training methods and effectiveness. - Page 11

jubaji · 02-18-2004, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Sauce

I rest my case.

One can only hope.

**Thai Bri** · 02-18-2004, 04:59 PM

Hot Sauce - don't take my word for it. Go to a grapplers gym, and ask to train with a student with only 6 months experience. Explain that you want to use strikes in any sparring. Then see what happenes.

If it was that easy, the Gracie's wouldn't have revolutionised full contact martial arts competition. They met any striking champion and went through them all like a knife through butter. Don't you think these high ranking Kung Fu nad Karate people realised they could use strikes on the floor?

Wake up, you idiot.

Tiger Claw · 02-18-2004, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Sauce

I'm talking about self-defence. The fight ends when you can get out of there without the attacker wanting to follow you or can't.

I agree with you, but as I said we do train groundfighting, it's one of the five fighting distances we are training. But we don't train grappling, we train against it, anti-grappling or whatever they are calling it. I for one wouldn't like to, for example, put a triangle choke or armbar bar on the attacker. What can I do from thoose positions? Choke him until he faints or die? Break his arm? Wait for the police to arrive if there are others "spectators" who might have called? Watch when the attackers possible friends kick me? Wait until the attacker take out a possible hidden weapon? Wait until he claps on the ground so you will release him? I would rather get up if I can, if not, attack him as fast as possible with everything I have, elbows - knees, and then get out of there when the first oppurtunity arrives.

Oh, I fight to the end if somone fs with me. I dunno if they can run faster than me. You may not have a place to run too or you may be injured. Elbows and knees work great. I was in a clinch with a guy once and used only knees in that fight. It was a middle school bathroom fight and a teacher interrupted the fight. I pretended to take a piss while the other guy was lying on the ground. The two that set up the fight distracted the teacher and don't think he saw us. That was a long time ago heh. I used to get set up into fights.

Hot Sauce · 02-19-2004, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thai Bri

Hot Sauce - don't take my word for it. Go to a grapplers gym, and ask to train with a student with only 6 months experience. Explain that you want to use strikes in any sparring. Then see what happenes.

Why don't you visit a WT school and ask to train with a student with only 6 months experience. Explain that you want to use grappling in any sparring. Then see what happenes.

Dead end.

I plan to beginn my BJJ training later. I have no time noir cash to begin training another Martial Art right now. Besides, WT is satisfying me for the moment and changing styles all the time isn't good. If it turns out that strikers has no chance against grapplers in self-defence situations, it will still be a good experience to have trained WT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thai Bri

If it was that easy, the Gracie's wouldn't have revolutionised full contact martial arts competition. They met any striking champion and went through them all like a knife through butter. Don't you think these high ranking Kung Fu nad Karate people realised they could use strikes on the floor?

Wake up, you idiot.

Easy? Competition? Have I written any of that in my previous posts? I think not.

Have you seen Mark Kerr´s latest fight? I personally believe that groundfighting is overrated.

That was then this is now, the striking fighters now know the GJJ/BJJ fighters technique and are able train against them, just watch Vanderlei Silva.

jubaji · 02-19-2004, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Sauce

I plan to beginn my BJJ training later. .

At which point you will stop spouting all this nonsense.

Kaotiren · 02-19-2004, 09:24 AM

I train people in a Northern Shaolin style of martial arts - I think similar to WC but more even and loose stances and slightly higher kicking- and I always get my students into medium and then heavy contact sparring for more practical application of the techniques. I hear about some training leaving it out and personally believe it trains one not to contact real people. It is impossible to completely imitate getting attacked but it helps really hitting and getting hit- freely. The only balance is keeping your students from getting hurt in class...
My 2 cents anyway. By the way, Chinese martial arts as I know it do not rely on one techniqe or stance but many that flow together. Single movements sounds more like karate or Tqd.

Hot Sauce · 02-19-2004, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jubaji

At which point you will stop spouting all this nonsense.

I think that MT/WT/BJJ would make me a good allround fighter. MT = clinch + powerfull kicks, especially the low kick - WT = fast hand techniques + chi sao + footwork + anti-grappling + reflexes + relaxation - BJJ = superior techniuqes in ground fighting? I don't know much about BJJ.

m.artist · 02-19-2004, 10:15 AM

incorperate all of that into a ur own jkd, then u have a an art to be feared. that's a good idea hot sauce

bartjam · 02-19-2004, 05:04 PM

I think WT would work well if you incorporate some pre-emptive strikes off a passive stance and some good groundwork (BJJ or sambo). I'm sure there will be soon many schools that offer this kind of mixed training

IPON · 02-19-2004, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bartjam

some good groundwork (BJJ or sambo). I'm sure there will be soon many schools that offer this kind of mixed training

You are correcthere is one ;
http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com/index3.html

IPON · 02-19-2004, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Sauce

Why don't you visit a WT school and ask to train with a student with only 6 months experience. Explain that you want to use grappling in any sparring. Then see what happenes.

Dead end.

You do understand how ridiculus that statement is considering HE has trainined in WC and YOU have not trained in BJJ

**Thai Bri** · 02-19-2004, 05:43 PM

True. I have trained WC and Grappling. I speak from the practicalities of life, not the theories.

guy incognito · 02-19-2004, 07:34 PM

The realities of life.I would like to say in my experience as a crowd controller and security gaurd that ground fighting is a good recipe for getting seriosly f**ked up.Knock out one guy move onto the next.With multiple attackers take someone to the ground and you WILL get carved up those are the realities of life.Sorry boys but its bad news.I have been taken to the ground so im not so stupid as to suggest it doesnt happen it does that is not my arguement.No doubt i will get criticism but im happy to discuss it.No name calling please

**Thai Bri** · 02-19-2004, 07:56 PM

Agreed. Learning to ground fight is, for me, merely a contingency in case I get taken there. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link etc.

But, one on one, a grappler is at an advantage to a WC guy, especially one who thinks his principles will apply on the ground......

IPON · 02-19-2004, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy incognito

The realities of life.I would like to say in my experience as a crowd controller and security gaurd that ground fighting is a good recipe for getting seriosly f**ked up.

I certainly don't disagree. I don't think you should committ to the ground but taking other to the ground much different. But I think the reason why it wa brought up is that WC's weakness is the ground

02-19-2004, 09:24 AM	#156 (permalink)
Kaotiren Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 8	Contact sparring is neccessary. I train people in a Northern Shaolin style of martial arts - I think similar to WC but more even and loose stances and slightly higher kicking- and I always get my students into medium and then heavy contact sparring for more practical application of the techniques. I hear about some training leaving it out and personally believe it trains one not to contact real people. It is impossible to completely imitate getting attacked but it helps really hitting and getting hit- freely. The only balance is keeping your students from getting hurt in class... My 2 cents anyway. By the way, Chinese martial arts as I know it do not rely on one techniqe or stance but many that flow together. Single movements sounds more like karate or Tqd.

02-19-2004, 10:15 AM	#158 (permalink)
m.artist Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 919	incorperate all of that into a ur own jkd, then u have a an art to be feared. that's a good idea hot sauce __________________ "Before you open your mouth to speak, please make sure it's an improvement upon the silence."

02-19-2004, 05:04 PM	#159 (permalink)
bartjam Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: italy Posts: 178	I think WT would work well if you incorporate some pre-emptive strikes off a passive stance and some good groundwork (BJJ or sambo). I'm sure there will be soon many schools that offer this kind of mixed training __________________ "Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened." Winston Churchill

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02-18-2004, 04:59 PM	#152 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,423	Hot Sauce - don't take my word for it. Go to a grapplers gym, and ask to train with a student with only 6 months experience. Explain that you want to use strikes in any sparring. Then see what happenes. If it was that easy, the Gracie's wouldn't have revolutionised full contact martial arts competition. They met any striking champion and went through them all like a knife through butter. Don't you think these high ranking Kung Fu nad Karate people realised they could use strikes on the floor? Wake up, you idiot.

02-19-2004, 05:43 PM	#162 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,423	True. I have trained WC and Grappling. I speak from the practicalities of life, not the theories.

02-19-2004, 07:34 PM	#163 (permalink)
guy incognito Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 437	The realities of life.I would like to say in my experience as a crowd controller and security gaurd that ground fighting is a good recipe for getting seriosly f**ked up.Knock out one guy move onto the next.With multiple attackers take someone to the ground and you WILL get carved up those are the realities of life.Sorry boys but its bad news.I have been taken to the ground so im not so stupid as to suggest it doesnt happen it does that is not my arguement.No doubt i will get criticism but im happy to discuss it.No name calling please

02-19-2004, 07:56 PM	#164 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,423	Agreed. Learning to ground fight is, for me, merely a contingency in case I get taken there. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link etc. But, one on one, a grappler is at an advantage to a WC guy, especially one who thinks his principles will apply on the ground......

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