Thai Bri

Why do you do them? What do you get out of them?

Tameo

I do forms to learn the movements and analyze them to see if the structure is correct.

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KungfuJeremy

I do forms to learn movements and techniques. I get a better understanding of techniques, strikes, and applications out of them.

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There is no such thing as dirtying fighting, only winning

Thai Bri

But how can you get a better understanding of techniques, strikes, structure and application....... by waving your limbs about in a pre determined sequence against thin air?

KungfuJeremy

Techniques: You can get a better understanding of techniques by practicing the form slowly, normal speed, and fast. When you do this, then show your instructor and he will tell you what needs to be corrected. He should tell you what each movement and technique is used for and have you practice them with a partner. like sparring except with singles techniques.


For every concept i stated, you will practice the form in different speeds many times for a long time. By doing this the techniques, strikes, structure and application of the movements should start to come natrual and you should be able to perform these movements and know what they are used for with the help of your instructor. Forms help create reflexes. Making these techniques come automatically and fast.

Not everything in the form will work in every situation, but you have to analyze the form and take what is useful from it and throw out what is useless. A Form will not be an ultimate way to fight, but it should prepare you for certain situations.


So i practice forms to help me learn the mechanics and basics of martial arts.
I also practice forms to build up leg strength and to help build up my reflexes.

I also get softness from my forms, and i use them as a warmup excersise.

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There is no such thing as dirtying fighting, only winning

Thai Bri

Now we are getting to the meat. I'm all for a slow beginning, learning a move against thin air for a short while.

But you need to speed up and actually hit things to become expert in hitting things.

Forms help you become "expert" at hitting thin air! The correct way to transmit power is TOTALLY DIFFERENT to hitting thin air.

The whole thrust of the training is wrong.

Tennis champions do not wave a pretend racquet about. Baseball batsmen likewise. In these multi million dollar past times, don't you think they would if it was the most efficient way?

ryanhall

I often like to drop into a horse stance before passing gas...does that count?

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"Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"

konghan

Forms develop the following:
1. breathing
2. stamina & endurance
3. focus & conditioned our mind & subconcious to know how to react in a given situation.
4. prevents panicking, develop presence of mind not only in fighting but in any emergency situation, decision making.
5. develop our foot work & balance
6. develop proper coordination of legs, hips, shoulders & arms
7. develop proper utilization of power punch & power kick.
8. develop timing
9. develop techniques
10. exercise our interior organs
11. develop good blood circulation
12. develop our sixth sense, the ability to feel & sense danger
13. help us develop the ability to see thru certain individuals characteristics & intentions

So far thats` it.

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"Every technique has a counter technique".
www.konghankungfu.com

Thai Bri

Forms develop the following:
1. breathing

But much less than bagwork, where you get the added benefit of learning how to hit hard

2. stamina & endurance

But much less than bagwork, where you get the added benefit of learning how to hit hard

3. focus & conditioned our mind & subconcious to know how to react in a given situation.

You mean if you are attacked by an imaginary person? No it doesn't. Nonsense.

4. prevents panicking, develop presence of mind not only in fighting but in any emergency situation, decision making.

Total bullshit.

5. develop our foot work & balance

But much less than bagwork, where you get the added benefit of learning how to hit hard

6. develop proper coordination of legs, hips, shoulders & arms

But much less than bagwork, where you get the added benefit of learning how to hit hard

7. develop proper utilization of power punch & power kick.

But much less than bagwork, where you get the added benefit of learning how to hit hard

8. develop timing

Rubbish. Timing involves something or someone to time with!

9. develop techniques#

Totally wrong. Develops thin air technique AT THE EXPENSE of actually hitting power

10. exercise our interior organs

Really? - But much less than bagwork, where you get the added benefit of learning how to hit hard

11. develop good blood circulation

Desperate.

12. develop our sixth sense, the ability to feel & sense danger

Haw haw haw!

13. help us develop the ability to see thru certain individuals characteristics & intentions

Fukkin laughable!

I don't mean to be rude, but come on. One or two points above are true, but much less than bagwork, where you get the added benefit of learning how to hit hard. This insistence that Forms must have some use leads to these ridiculous assertions. Sixth sense! Seeing through peoples character?

HAW HAW HAW!!!!!!

Come on people. I'm trying to be nice. But you're making it too hard! I reckon Chris Davies, who is on your side, will cringe in embarrassment at your attempts to justify forms!

THIS IS RIDICULOUS

Seismic Anamoly

The forms as I've come to understand them (at least for me in Wing Chun) serves as a measuring stick to what I have to do and where I have to be at any given situation (If something comes at you from this angle you do this, if something comes from that angle you do that..etc..). Given that Wing Chun is based on principle and not squarely on technqiue, it only makes sense that you go over your principles every so often. Boxers do this also when they do shadow boxing. Boxers will Box against an imaginary opponent while developing their timing, reaction, and what have you. You can say its for stamina and physical conditioning, but the underpinnings for reaction fighting is there. Now, the one thing to remember in "forms" (at least as how i approach it) is that its ENTIRELY THEORETICAL. The reality of it comes fourth in an actual fight. So its safe to say that "forms" are "theory" and fighting is "reality". This is how I've come to approach it in my training in wing chun. I cant speak for any other arts, but my own.

-S.A.

Thai Bri

I don't agree with you mate. But at least you have a coherent and reasonable supporting rationale. Thanks for that.

KungfuJeremy

hey thai bri have you ever learned any forms yourself?

__________________
There is no such thing as dirtying fighting, only winning

Seismic Anamoly

Well I'm glad you understand my reasoning for it. But if I may ask, what dont you agree with? Not that I'm trying to disuade you from your opinion, I just would like to see where you see the flaw or weakness is in my theory. Again, not attacking you or trying to dissuade you, but if you see something I dont, I'd like to hear it.

if you use AIM u can IM me at
PlayKarma


-S.A.

Thai Bri

Yes, Sil Lum Tao. It was stupid.

Seismic - Why have the theory? Its a fighting art, and should train you how to fight. There is no real similarity to shadow boxing, as that is spontaneous.

You are merely learning how to dance. And not particularly well. Any indirect benefit can be gained in a more direct manner by other means.

konghan

First of all your questions was about forms. But in training as a whole forms, sparring, weaponry, technique application, punching & kicking the bag as well as other works outs will go hand in hand in becoming a good martial artist.

But to summarize a few things in forms:
Breathing, its about inhaling & exhaling that would allow proper circulation & use of oxygen entering your body & at the same time timing it with your attack of punching or kicking to generate that extra power.
Endurance & stamina, I don`t know how other MA do their forms, but in the style that I`m involve with which is ngo cho kun ( 5 ancestors fist), forms are executed with emphasis on the use of full power unleash on every punch, kick & block with the legs, hip & shoulder doing all the power generation & transferring it or amplyfying it to the arms then the fist with certain speed. One single form in NCK is equivalent to 1 min of continous boxing in a boxing round. Concentration, in executing forms with full power not just doing the motion will develop the mind & subconcious to react automatically in a given situation. With breathing & movements the interior organs will get a work outv as well, just like the chi principle.

As far as the sixth sense is concern, try walking in a dark alley & feel what you can. Usually people with no good MA training will walk in the street unaware of their sorroundings & would not even have a hint if someone is behind them & about to grab them or stab them. The auto reaction of sensing that danger & reacting on it before the culprit could lay his hand on you is the sixth sense & the auto reaction could be a sudden block or parrying the attacking hand & automatically delivering a kick, a punch or pushing or shoving the attacker off balance. Thats` the sixth sense, thats`what forms in NCK will help you develop.

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"Every technique has a counter technique".
www.konghankungfu.com