The Ultimate in Martial Arts

Toudiyama[NL] · 11-14-2004, 02:03 PM

Everybody somehow seem to know I did MA, nobody ever tried to test me
Fact of the matter was, some Pencak Silat guy renowned for his fighting skill was scared of me ( he said he wasn't because I couldn't do much against a .45)

I sometimes ask myself how people know my name ( and that I do MA), might have something to do with the fact that the cllub I was teaching was the most well known MA club in my City ( Zaanstad Netherlands)

Besides, most boxers do it for sports, what the heck did this moronic act prove?
Why start a fight with a sporter? if should keep it secret it should be in such a way tah people who like to start fights aren't accepted in the first place, keeping it secret from them

Tom Yum · 11-14-2004, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medic06

It can (or appear to) happen if your opponent is coming toward you. I saw this happen to a UP (University Police) at a party back when I was in college. The cop did get hit with punch that started in the Carolinas, came down through Georgia, swept down the Gulf coast and landed squarely on his nose.

I'm also imagining when the professional wrestlers do the 'clothesline' move. probably a fluke, with a significant amount of momentum.

koto_ryu · 11-14-2004, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

I'm also imagining when the professional wrestlers do the 'clothesline' move. probably similar forces involved

I'll have to let you know, my buddy's with the CWF independent wrestling league so I'll ask him

I'm going to be working out with him sometime this week, he's gonna train me up and see how I do.

Tom Yum · 11-14-2004, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koto_ryu

I'll have to let you know, my buddy's with the CWF independent wrestling league so I'll ask him

I'm going to be working out with him sometime this week, he's gonna train me up and see how I do.

Awesome! Are you gonna try out? (sorry to fly off on this tangent!)

Did you hear about that guy that kimura'd Kurt Angle? Kind of controversial. I saw the clip. The dude had a standing kimura and Angle used his size advantage to fall on top of the guy. The guy quickly got him into a half-guard and allmost sweeped Angle (with the Kimura tearing away at his shoulder). Angle slowly got himself on top of the dude and the referee gave a 3 count.

Looked like if he had it any longer, it would have snapped. Did Angle know he was going to get himself into these kinds of moves? The dude is strong, tough and a former olympic wrestler, but still.

Hwangjanglee · 11-14-2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

I don't buy the story, but not because of the detail he remembers. I think it's a load of crap becasue I can't imagine a boxer with any kind of reputation hitting the deck because of a backfist. Nor can I imagine him initiating anything with a "wild punch." If this fight happened (which is not likely), it wasn't against a boxer. What's more, the whole scenario reeks of stupidity.

if you read back within my story you will see that i said he claimed to be a boxer, but probobly wasnt. plus we were fighting in the snow so when i hit him with the back fist he stumbled back and fell down.

koto_ryu · 11-14-2004, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Awesome! Are you gonna try out? (sorry to fly off on this tangent!)

Did you hear about that guy that kimura'd Kurt Angle? Kind of controversial. I saw the clip. The dude had a standing kimura and Angle used his size advantage to fall on top of the guy. The guy quickly got him into a half-guard and allmost sweeped Angle (with the Kimura tearing away at his shoulder). Angle slowly got himself on top of the dude and the referee gave a 3 count.

Looked like if he had it any longer, it would have snapped. Did Angle know he was going to get himself into these kinds of moves? The dude is strong, tough and a former olympic wrestler, but still.

I doubt I'll ever go pro, there's this one guy, Lord Zultan, he's been on the amateur circuit for over 20 years. They only get a few hundred a match if that, so it's mostly for fun. It is pretty dope to see my buddy pull out techniques from the Kihon Happo (ninjutsu techniques) on some of the wrestlers though

And yeah Kurt Angle is really good. He's from my hometown (Pittsburgh) and I remember back in HS in like '98 he gave a wrestling seminar for our team. Pretty good stuff

medic06 · 11-15-2004, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Awesome! Are you gonna try out? (sorry to fly off on this tangent!)

Did you hear about that guy that kimura'd Kurt Angle? Kind of controversial. I saw the clip. The dude had a standing kimura and Angle used his size advantage to fall on top of the guy. The guy quickly got him into a half-guard and allmost sweeped Angle (with the Kimura tearing away at his shoulder). Angle slowly got himself on top of the dude and the referee gave a 3 count.

Looked like if he had it any longer, it would have snapped. Did Angle know he was going to get himself into these kinds of moves? The dude is strong, tough and a former olympic wrestler, but still.

I saw the clip too. I really don't think he had anything unless Kurt has really tight shoulders. If he could have slipped out to the side of the lock and drove Kurt's face into the ground then he would have had something.

Juicefree · 09-11-2006, 08:02 AM

" .... i backfisted him in the face and he fell to the ground. Something came over me that made me want to just keep beating him up, and evenually my friends pulled me off of his body. As i starred down at him gasping for air and wiping blood of his face i knew something had to be changed. This is why i no longer tell of my MA experience to any one, and tell my friends not to either, i still have goting into fights, but on different circumstances. This is why we MAs should keep or MA status some what secretive. ..."

I can believe that you can knock a guy down with a backfist, especially in the snow. I doubt that you'd do much damage though. However to say that a back fist is akin to a jab I think misunderstands both strikes. Certainly a good straight lead (as opposed to a jab) can knock someone out, when combined with accuracy and good timing. A good jab should be able to at least knock someone down too.

As for the guy who's walks around with a concealed weapon, I'm only thankful I don't live my life in such a paranoid, insecure state of fear ! I guess it might just be where you live, but then again moving house could be an option ?

tjwingchun · 09-22-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dim Wit Moc

Bogus story or not, I think it is a good idea to have a closed mouth about firearms ownership and martial arts training. I only talk about these things to people I am close to and I can trust when the subject comes up, but that is very rare. A person I am very close to will pack when in bear territory even though it is illegal. No one knows it because there is absolutely no discussion. If the need arises, he feels it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six. The same thing goes with martial arts training. If the need arises to use it, there should be a quick and ruthless attack to end hostilities with no prior warnings or discussion of technique or style. This is why the leopard is my favorite kung fu animal.

Cannot argue with any of the above sentiments.

Just throwing my experience in here relating to both the consequences of knowledge of martial arts capabilities and firearm use.

A couple of years ago I resolved a situation of a 30+ year old ex-army lad came around to my girlfriends house while we were out screaming at the babysitter that he was going to get a gun to the head of her boyfriend; this was infront of an 8 year old girl who was you can imagine, traumatised, babysitter called the police but after they left he called again, repeating the same threat.

When we returned home to discover what had happened, we paid him a visit, he said the police were dealing with it and refused to open the door, I went through the door to ask him why he though he could behave in such a way infront of a child, as I entered his bedroom he came toward me and went to punch me, I simply punched him back onto the bed, only about 3-4 hits but more slaps than full blown punches, and he started crying again "the police are dealing with it etc".

To the point of the post, as I am well known in the area as a martial artist and obviously this ex-squaddie told the police as he reported me, and as linked to the incident was a "firearm" reference, when the police turned up to arrest me there was an 'armed' response team, two sets of dog handlers and a full squad of about a dozen police headed by an Inspector, who all rushed in like the scene from Monty Python's "Life of Brian" where the Roman soldiers come piling in.

However the positive aspect of knowledge of my Wing Chun being in the public domain was that the prosecution lawyer sounded more like my defence, as they took into consideration my background skills and abilities and the fact that he was hardly damaged when I could have easily seriously hurt or killed him. The result was a £50 fine and £50 costs. People get fined more for dropping litter.

I live in an area that has a reputation for 'nutters', yet in all the 23 years that I have been teaching I have never been targeted by anyone because of my martial arts, I don't strut about like a peacock, or with my chest puffed out, I keep myself to myself and don't get involved 'hardman' talk.

So it is not so much 'Keeping MA staus secret', it is more not pushing it in peoples face.

tjwingchun · 09-23-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Maybe better still to be known as a responsible martial artist of character and integrity than to try to hide who you are...

Never hidden myself, always try to be honest and as truthful as possible, which is why I have a fair amount of respect locally and not targeted by the 'knackers' lol.

There have been other instances where I have been in conflicts and I was not the aggressor, my example was a rare situation where I felt the my actions were justified in response to a bully's actions that traumatised an 8 year old girl, where he was getting away with not being made responsible for his actions as he was not persued by the police.

The point of my post was just relating to the theme of the thread of " Keeping MA status secret", and how my tale covered both MA skill and firearms.

Generally I am know as a "quiet one", until they get to know me

Tom Yum · 09-23-2006, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Incidentally, tj, that wasn't necessarily directed at you for that story. I just think that living a moral and ethical life and being a responsible and contructive citizen is nearly always better, easier, and in the long run more effective than trying to hide one's hobbies and pursuits. My comment was directed at the thread topic itself - not at your example (which was a good one, by the way).

I agree with you on principal, Mike.

I don't see hiding one's martial arts related hobbies and persuits as the opposite of living a moral and ethical lifestyle. I can see how some would rather keep their martial arts interests low-key simply because the perception of martial arts lends itself to all kinds of reactions from those who don't practice or haven't practiced much.

I know some folks who think that MA training or self-defense is either crazy, idiotic or too much work, but they are certainly entitled to their opinion.

If we talk about a training session with enthusiasm, folks outside of this realm seem to perceive it as boasting when you were just talking about a breakthrough in something or other. Same with interest in firearms.

In most environments, it usually draws natural curiosity but nothing negative.

Tom Yum · 09-23-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

My point is simply that if you ever get into trouble, it won't stay hidden. Picture this side of a conversation:

"Your honor, the defendant has not only trained himself for years in various methods of fighting and inflicting grievous bodily harm, but he knew that this training was dangerous - possibly lethal. He felt a need to keep it concealed from others for just that reason; so that if he ever hurt or killed someone, no one would know that he had in fact trained specifically to do the kind of harm he did to my client!".

Can we as people really keep secrets? They allways seem to have a way of getting out as you mentioned for the reason of benefit.

Its no secret that you, I or others here train in the martial arts. One could argue that this information is available electronically through various media.

If one is acting in self-defense, they shouldn't have the need to disclose their methods at hand as long as they use reasonable force to get them out of the conflict they are in.

If a martial artist is confronted/attacked by suprise by an attacker with intent to injure, its only equitable that the attacker ask the defender if they are trained in the martial arts or other methods of self-protection before they begin their assault...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

On the other hand, I'm reminded of Benjamin Franklin when he went to France during the American Revolution. His valet was a known British loyalist and spy for Great Britain. This valet was often the one who took Franklin's dictation, and he was able to report to England about every move Ben Franklin made. On more than one occasion, Frankiln's friends warned him of this situation and begged him to dismiss the valet altogether. Franklin's reply was always the same:

"If I live the kind of life that I have no need to be ashamed of, then this man, spy or not, will never have anything to hold against me.".

That's powerful - thanks for pointing it out. I think Ben Franklin was influenced by the Bible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

There are basically four reasons to keep a secret in the whole of the human experience. The first is that the secret is something that might cause embarrassment or a loss of social status if discovered. The second is that the secret is something that could damage one's efforts to improve his standing - something that could literally cause a loss of effectiveness, liberty or even life if discovered. Third, a person may keep a secret simply because knowing something that is unknown to others can sometimes be enough to make that person feel superior to those around him. Finally, the secret may cause some other person or party pain or loss if discovered (and really, this is only important because of that person's importance to the secret-keeper). The common thread in all of these is that a secret only serves to protect against loss or pain. Secrets are never closely guarded when their content would make a person seem more desirable or effective. And so, the reaction of most people to finding out that you have a secret is to assume and apply the worst possible reasons for it to you and your situation.

If you need proof of that, go and read any of bustr's posts on George Bush.

Intense and true.

Sagacious Lu · 09-24-2006, 05:19 PM

My training certainly isn't a secret, but I don't flaunt it either. I've been thinking about the different reactions I get when people find out that I box- or about any of the other things that I've practiced. There are some people (my friends wife in particular

) that instantly look down on it and pass judgement because "you're practicing hurting people". Frankly those people just have personal issues; if they can't tell the difference between a sportsman/martial artist and a thug then that just reflects their own ignorance. When that happens it does bother me a little but what the hell, I'm not about to change who I am just to please them. I've also had guys look at me and say something brilliant like "So you could kick my ass! "

This doesn't bother me as much as being lumped into a negative stereotype but it's still assinine. My answer to that is usually "I don't know, are you good at fighting?" Then I tell them it doesn't matter becuase I only fight in the ring anyway. Some people are fascinated and ask a lot of questions, but for the most part I think the majority of people could care less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Maybe better still to be known as a responsible martial artist of character and integrity than to try to hide who you are...

This is a good point. I have been able to talk my friends out of getting into trouble in the past. Sometimes my friends get a little hot headed and when they do my attitude is always that it's not worth it and that we should just drop it and walk away. They know I box because love to fight, and that I don't have anything to prove so the fact that I don't want to fight makes them think twice. When you have some realistic ability but you don't have an attitude and are in fact unaggresive and friendly people respect what that says about your character- or at least the people that count do.

WildWest. · 09-26-2006, 05:17 AM

Personally I kept my training in MA's pretty low key. Not because I'm hiding something but more because the general public have some ridiculous misconceptions regarding MA's. Some people think you can beat up a room full of people, others think you are some sort of lethal weapon, others think you can fly a la Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon!! Seriously the bullshit that people think and say to you regarding MA's are sometimes hilarious but, perhaps, ultimately dangerous......but you don't need to be a dick either!!

Tom Yum · 09-28-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildWest.

Personally I kept my training in MA's pretty low key. Not because I'm hiding something but more because the general public has some ridiculous misconceptions regarding MA's....but you don't need to be a dick either!!

I completely agree.

11-14-2004, 02:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
Toudiyama[NL] Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Zaandam, Netherlands Posts: 1,375 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Everybody somehow seem to know I did MA, nobody ever tried to test me Fact of the matter was, some Pencak Silat guy renowned for his fighting skill was scared of me ( he said he wasn't because I couldn't do much against a .45) I sometimes ask myself how people know my name ( and that I do MA), might have something to do with the fact that the cllub I was teaching was the most well known MA club in my City ( Zaanstad Netherlands) Besides, most boxers do it for sports, what the heck did this moronic act prove? Why start a fight with a sporter? if should keep it secret it should be in such a way tah people who like to start fights aren't accepted in the first place, keeping it secret from them __________________

09-26-2006, 05:17 AM	#29 (permalink)
WildWest. Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NZ Posts: 684 Groans: 2 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Personally I kept my training in MA's pretty low key. Not because I'm hiding something but more because the general public have some ridiculous misconceptions regarding MA's. Some people think you can beat up a room full of people, others think you are some sort of lethal weapon, others think you can fly a la Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon!! Seriously the bullshit that people think and say to you regarding MA's are sometimes hilarious but, perhaps, ultimately dangerous......but you don't need to be a dick either!! __________________ "Only one of us knows illegal ninja moves from the government"

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09-11-2006, 08:02 AM	#23 (permalink)
Juicefree Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 89 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	" .... i backfisted him in the face and he fell to the ground. Something came over me that made me want to just keep beating him up, and evenually my friends pulled me off of his body. As i starred down at him gasping for air and wiping blood of his face i knew something had to be changed. This is why i no longer tell of my MA experience to any one, and tell my friends not to either, i still have goting into fights, but on different circumstances. This is why we MAs should keep or MA status some what secretive. ..." I can believe that you can knock a guy down with a backfist, especially in the snow. I doubt that you'd do much damage though. However to say that a back fist is akin to a jab I think misunderstands both strikes. Certainly a good straight lead (as opposed to a jab) can knock someone out, when combined with accuracy and good timing. A good jab should be able to at least knock someone down too. As for the guy who's walks around with a concealed weapon, I'm only thankful I don't live my life in such a paranoid, insecure state of fear ! I guess it might just be where you live, but then again moving house could be an option ?

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