chris davis 200

Hi all,

here are some new clips from a play around Paul Alexander (my training partner and instructor of ba gua at UK ba gua institute) and i just had.

All the applications are unrehersed. defending single and multiple punches.

me doing some Hsing I. these are pretty self explanitory so i wont explain too much.

http://www.ukbaguainstitute.com/video/pichuan.wmv

http://www.ukbaguainstitute.com/video/fastbeng.wmv

http://www.ukbaguainstitute.com/video/chris_trap.wmv

Paul doing some ba gua.

http://www.ukbaguainstitute.com/video/paul_throw.wmv

http://www.ukbaguainstitute.com/video/paulbagua3.wmv

Elbow to spine, rotates around the punch using centrifugal force to apply a powerful spine strike with the elbow tip. (glad he had control of this!)
http://www.ukbaguainstitute.com/video/paulbagua2.wmv

cheers.

Regards
Chris

__________________
"Be alert. Be alive in the moment. Don’t imagine anyone who comes and asks you to ‘push’ or ‘spar’ will keep to a format, or even stay barehanded" my ba gua teacher !!

Shaolinkfman

Not to be negative, but that wasn't really that impressive. I learned a lot of soft art including aikido and some judo and it has some moves that would destroy about everything that was thrown and also would help counter-defend if I were attacking. Especially the aikido since most of all the basic moves break joints.

__________________
"And shepherds we shall be, for thee my lord for thee. Power hath decended forth from thy hand so our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. And we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."

polecat63

I would have to disagree withthat assesment. Sure, at that speed you are correct, my ten year old son could defend against it. But at full speed with the intent to do bodily harm it would be an entirely different story. Xing yi at full speed (and power) is like trying to stop a train. IMHO

Shaolinkfman

Yea I know it works good, lol, look at my alias. I've done some and all I'm saying it that from the video (which is "unrehersed", probably why it is so slow) and from my experiences, aikido and some judo would counter a lot of what was going on attacking and defending side. I just think you guys should look into some more stuff is all.

__________________
"And shepherds we shall be, for thee my lord for thee. Power hath decended forth from thy hand so our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. And we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."

chris davis 200

ha - maybe you misunderstood then shaolin,

My intention was never to impress - but just to post a few clips of some light training that me and my training partner were doing.

And as someone that holds a dan rank in both Judo and Daito ryu aiki Ju Jutsu (the forerunner of aikido) I have found Hsing I to be a far more potent art - ditto with Ba Gua.

I have not seen many aikidoka - or Judo ka defending unrehersed multiple punches. maybe you trained differently. When training without choreography, application tends to look quite different.

But thankyou for your comments - everything is welcome.

Polecat - It would be good to see some clips of your 'full speed' Hsing I. Any chance of getting them online?

cheers
Chris

__________________
"Be alert. Be alive in the moment. Don’t imagine anyone who comes and asks you to ‘push’ or ‘spar’ will keep to a format, or even stay barehanded" my ba gua teacher !!

chris davis 200

shaolin - do you mean the attacking is slow?

look at the Pi chuan clip - i deffent 2 punches in well under a second - not that slow.

some were slower than others yes - but it was an early morning - 'training' session.

would be good to see your stuff though.

cheers
Chris

__________________
"Be alert. Be alive in the moment. Don’t imagine anyone who comes and asks you to ‘push’ or ‘spar’ will keep to a format, or even stay barehanded" my ba gua teacher !!

Shaolinkfman

Lol I would put stuff if i could afford a camera. I'm a poor college student. As for the training in multiple punches, generally all aikido moves deflect the attack in such a manner that it is not possible for any punches to connect. The first thing you do is learn how to move in a manner which A. move out of the way of the attack then B. puts you in a manner which they could not easily defend. You also have to take this legitly because I actually don't like either of the arts because I like the macho violent stuff, this was more of an I've seen better post. Though I do like how you have done some other arts.

__________________
"And shepherds we shall be, for thee my lord for thee. Power hath decended forth from thy hand so our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. And we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."

Shaolinkfman

Plus this is how most street fights tend being.

http://media.skoopy.com/vids/vid_00310.wmv

__________________
"And shepherds we shall be, for thee my lord for thee. Power hath decended forth from thy hand so our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. And we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."

chris davis 200

Shaolinkfman,

i am sure you have seen much better - i am a beginner in the big scheme of things.

i know alot of Aikido ka. I have trained with alot of Aikido ka.

Regarding street fights. I have worked as a doorman for a fair old while now so i know the reality of street combat fairly well, i am not an expert by any means, but i have been in a fair few assults with multiple and armed opponents.

ok. In theory fair enough - but in practice?? i know that aikido is a very powerful system when trained correctly - i think Morihito Saito desplays this more than most - but - in your average aikido class the reality of street combat is rarely touched upon. Do you work with Dialog, Destraction, deception, destruction etc??

If you train in a realistic way to defend realistic street attacks then good. such aikido schools are very few and far between. you may be one of the lucky ones.

Ba gua has many principles in common with Aikido - infact many believe that Ueshiba studied Ba gua when in Manchuria. (side note : as someone that has trained in traditional Ba gua and Daito Ryu i can see how a blending of the two would result in aikido)

This, as has been stated many times, was an unrehersed play around. a few nice Hsing I and Ba gua applications came out so i thought i would post them.

If you would like to see anything done from Shomen, double lappel grab or Gyaku Gote just let me know. i would be happy to show such application of Ba gua or Hsing I.

happy training.

With kindest Regards
Chris

__________________
"Be alert. Be alive in the moment. Don’t imagine anyone who comes and asks you to ‘push’ or ‘spar’ will keep to a format, or even stay barehanded" my ba gua teacher !!

EmptyneSs

yeah no offence, but those videos were weak. those techniques probobly would only be good vs people who are weak and dont know how to fight, cause they prob wouldnt generate enough power to really do dmg and also people who actually know how to fight wouldnt attack u by just throwing themselves at u blindly.

chris davis 200

hello again,

I thought i would post a breif description of what is occuring in these clips as some of the stuff is a little abstract maybe.

clips of me doing some hsing i

clip 1: Pi chuan

here i am attacked with 2 fast Jabs, i use pi chuans monkey wrist and heavy elbow to move/redirect the punches, crossing the second punch across the attackers body making him rotate. As i do this i kick to his groin to take his attension downwards allowing a full Pi Chuan to the temple. This is a knock out strike. The reason for rotating him is so that i am covered for from further attacks from his other arm. (much like the covering positioning you are talking about in Aikido, shaolin) Rotating him also opens up the Kidneys, liver, temple, ribs and thigh to attck.

clip 2: Beng chuan

Paul begins to punch, before the punch gathers any momentum i move in on him, again at a 45 degree angle to his body to cover the second punch. He begins to read my movement out of his punching line and the punch slows and he begins to reposition. At this point i faint a pi chuan to the face to raise his attension for an instant and then attack just below the armpit, i continue my movement past him, as is taught in Hsing I when considering multiple opponents.

clip 3:trap.

as soon as paul begins his attacking movement i begin to present the back of my palm to his lower field of vision, causeing an instinctive reaction of the non punching hand to become his focus as a cover. this change of focus takes power and speed off his attack. following the movement i raise my elbow for a soft deflection to the side. The vertical forarm also covers my centre line. after redirecting i fold at the elbow, trapping his other striking arm while hitting his collar bone, again this impact makes him rotate out of the trap causing his temple to be open for another heavy pi chuan. Again a knock out in real time.

the ba gua clips - these are prabably the least easy to understand in a real combative sense.

clip 1: throw

Here i give a commited punch at pauls face. as the attack comes in he deflects and counters simultaniously with a strike across my body, and my lower bicep. I stop this however and paul follows my block to the outside of me, rotating around me as the centre and connecting with his forearm to the side of my head just below the ear. This of course at full power would seriously stun the opponent. he then continues to take my balance and throw me down. Note that i am not just falling, but trying to maintain some balance. and yet i am still thrown.

Clip 2: blending

Here paul weaves his upper body off the line of my attack - but leaves his fist and lower body behind, I perceive a threat to my groin - again instinctive, and also try to stop this with a block, both meet with nothing and this causes my balance to fall forward. paul circles behind me taking all of my follow up attacks away and covering from other attackers, catching my fall with one arm to lead me around, again, blocking the path of other attackers. His other arm follows and connects at the base of my skull behind the ear. again this would seriously stun and would be a very heavy unseen strike with a similar effect to a sucker punch. He then releases as would be the case in a multiple attacker situation, when he would want to strike fast and hard and then move to the next attacker while throwing the guy he struck into other opponents thus blocking their path to him.

Clip 3: elbow.

Here paul rotates to the outside of my attck for a quick strike to the base of the spine with the elbow tip. he continues his rotation again considering multiple opponents. This fast rotation make your main vunerable areas very hard to hit.

I think i got most of what was going on there, this is the reason i slowed the clips, as sometimes its hard to see what principles and natural reactions are at work when done at any sort of natural or normal speed.

anyways

cheers
Chris

__________________
"Be alert. Be alive in the moment. Don’t imagine anyone who comes and asks you to ‘push’ or ‘spar’ will keep to a format, or even stay barehanded" my ba gua teacher !!

chris davis 200

emptyness - yeh just a early morning play thats all - not padded up street work!

chris

__________________
"Be alert. Be alive in the moment. Don’t imagine anyone who comes and asks you to ‘push’ or ‘spar’ will keep to a format, or even stay barehanded" my ba gua teacher !!

polecat63

Chris Davis,
No vids of me yet. Just getting started with xing yi and have nowhere near the knowledge I would feel comfortable filming. I don't think I explained myself very well. I didn't mean to say you were slow, just that the way you were moving is different because your intent is not to cause harm. If you were defending yourself from an attack you would look completely different, IMHO. You would "finish" the moves or strikes instaead of pulling them. Am I making sense? In fact, doing Xing yi without pads....you must be a brave man.
My style of Xing yi does not do the five fists so I can't really comment on your form, but from other clips I've seen and books I've read they look pretty dead on. My background is Karate and wrestling so I can't comment about Aikido or Judo.

polecat63

Oh, and my son is a purple belt in Karate, and at ten is as fast as greased lightning!

Shaolinkfman

Actually yes because the class I was in was a training course for police and military personel and was adapted for the streets.

__________________
"And shepherds we shall be, for thee my lord for thee. Power hath decended forth from thy hand so our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. And we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."