interesting points from an internal martial arts master

chris davis 200 · 03-31-2005, 10:00 AM

Hi all,

here are some extracts from an discussion with Ba Gua and Xing Yi master Liu Wan Fu of Tianjin. he talks of the old Full contact bouts in China, form and real combat,

just for enjoyment.

Quote:

Liu believes that the first few seconds of a fight usually decides who will win or lose. He said that in the old style martial arts tournaments, each bout only lasted a few seconds. The first clash decided victory. He said that the people who fought back then were skilled and powerful. There was very little protective equipment worn and thus the first one that got hit usually went down hard.

He said typically the two fighters would walk into the ring, shake hands, back up a bit and then begin to stalk each other. One of them would make the first move and within seconds the fight would be over. He said the fights were never pretty.

Liu says he has practiced martial arts forms almost every day of his life, however he has never gotten away with a clean technique in a real fight. ……

……Many of the movements practiced in forms do not have a direct application to fighting. They are practiced to build certain strengths and principles of body motion. In fighting they would be too complex and too slow.

…. He believes that in fighting you have to be very direct, have fast reflex’, be agile and have strength. He said that most people he has met that practice their long ba gua forms and try to do applications from them cant fight at all …..

having quick reactions, having the proper method and having power behind your method are the three most important components in fighting.

... the only way one can learn 'real' fighting is out on the streets, down and dirty, no rules, no pads, full contact and full speed....

... it seems that many of the idea's people practice and claim as new in the west have been around far longer than they think ...

Kindest Regards

Chris

npk9 · 03-31-2005, 12:28 PM

Many of the "old school" (pre WWII) Kuosho fights were like that. They allowed strikes to groin and throat. IF you have ever seen a fighting stance of an "old school" fight - its slightly different from the full contact figheters today. Now its more sport oriented. Unfortunately people don't make the difference (some even purposely mix it up or just don't know what they are talking about) when it comes to types of combat - all out warfare, street, fullcontact sport, point sparring, womens self-defence. Instructors fail to be very specific about techniques - theories and the goals behind them.

chris davis 200 · 03-31-2005, 01:20 PM

agreed - good post.

regards
chris

keskilinja · 03-31-2005, 02:01 PM

And remember fight isn't sparring or match. In fight u fight to survive(1-3sec). In sparr u can test your skills knowing that u won't die. In match u fight to show u'r skills.

Killuminati · 04-25-2005, 10:05 AM

I know what you mean, I haven't been in a real fight but couple of times and mostly before I began my training as a martial artist. I have tried to study this thing as much as I can to prepare myself for real fight, but only thing I think is important to prepare is to keep my mind calm and razor sharp :/

Does someone agree ?

jubaji · 04-25-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killuminati

I know what you mean, I haven't been in a real fight but couple of times and mostly before I began my training as a martial artist. I have tried to study this thing as much as I can to prepare myself for real fight, but only thing I think is important to prepare is to keep my mind calm and razor sharp :/

Does someone agree ?

Maybe keeping a sharp razor would help!

IBOPM · 04-25-2005, 11:06 AM

Haha, i was thinking that when I read that post too.

Anyways, I'm willing to guess that the stances back then are more like the traditional CMA stances. Although, I doubt they go THAT low. I believe its more to train isometrics in the legs. I would believe that their fighting stance would be similar to WC.

03-31-2005, 01:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
chris davis 200 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: UK Posts: 724 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	agreed - good post. regards chris __________________ "Be alert. Be alive in the moment. Don’t imagine anyone who comes and asks you to ‘push’ or ‘spar’ will keep to a format, or even stay barehanded" my ba gua teacher !!

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03-31-2005, 12:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
npk9 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: PA Posts: 146 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Many of the "old school" (pre WWII) Kuosho fights were like that. They allowed strikes to groin and throat. IF you have ever seen a fighting stance of an "old school" fight - its slightly different from the full contact figheters today. Now its more sport oriented. Unfortunately people don't make the difference (some even purposely mix it up or just don't know what they are talking about) when it comes to types of combat - all out warfare, street, fullcontact sport, point sparring, womens self-defence. Instructors fail to be very specific about techniques - theories and the goals behind them.

03-31-2005, 02:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
keskilinja Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: rovaniemi finland Posts: 25 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	And remember fight isn't sparring or match. In fight u fight to survive(1-3sec). In sparr u can test your skills knowing that u won't die. In match u fight to show u'r skills.

04-25-2005, 10:05 AM	#5 (permalink)
Killuminati Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 21 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I know what you mean, I haven't been in a real fight but couple of times and mostly before I began my training as a martial artist. I have tried to study this thing as much as I can to prepare myself for real fight, but only thing I think is important to prepare is to keep my mind calm and razor sharp :/ Does someone agree ?

04-25-2005, 11:06 AM	#7 (permalink)
IBOPM Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 55 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Haha, i was thinking that when I read that post too. Anyways, I'm willing to guess that the stances back then are more like the traditional CMA stances. Although, I doubt they go THAT low. I believe its more to train isometrics in the legs. I would believe that their fighting stance would be similar to WC.

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