gong fu

all moves, locks, strikes, holds, methods of fighting, have a counter atack, many counter attacks actually,

does anybody here actualy think there are such movs wich are unbeatable? and will always work?,

every move has a counter attack to it, there will never be a style form or move that cant be stopped with hand to hand combat,



peace,

__________________
-Before Guns Men Had Balls-
-Shaolin Warrior-

aseepish

Everything has a counter, and every counter has a counter.

Once a lock or choke is close to being finalized though, it's too late. And then escape is very difficult, if not impossible.

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"It was about that time I realized that searching was my symbol, the emblem of those who go out at night with nothing in mind, the motives of a destroyer of compasses." -Cortázar

BoarSpear

naked strangle holds are the only thing ive never seen countered successfully...
didnt the Cat say on his death bed it was the ONLY inescapable hold?

Tant01

There are exceptions to every rule but generally speaking, once the lock/choke/hold is "defined" it's pretty damn tough to escape providing the proper position and application for a particular technique. Often this actually involves a number of techniques applied simultaneously.

__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson

BoarSpear

UHH didnt you just agree with me?..... i said the only hold i had never seen a realistic counter to was the naked strangle, whats that have to do with getting out more? you got a real world counter to it thats realistic?

aside from that every other hold has a counter, if you employ the counter at the right time...if you miss the counter you may be screwed. some holds have multiple ways out...the naked strangle rarely provides the time for for an escape even if you knew one

Tant01

Yeah, my eyes didn't see the N in never... I read "ever" thinking you had seen only escapes from that strangle hold... Didn't seem right???


My bad...

__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson

BoarSpear

HEHEHe thats makes a little more sense...I was like WHAAA

Tant01

In the PERFECT fight no harm will be done to either man. The truth is neither man will be able to execute his technique without the other man failing in some way to respond with the correct defense at the proper time. So once the technique has been applied something has already been missed. Your options then become very limited very quickly.

__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson

Hardball

I don't think there is really a counter for a good SUCKER PUNCH OR AMBUSH!!

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The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 50,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,300/100,000

gong fu

well witht he sucker punch, just dont be to close to people who you are unsure about and always be on guard, like i wont even go to sleep without a pistol next to me or a sword. the ambush is a hard one though. because it can come from anywhere but theres always the chance of detecting it before harm is done to you, reflex and reaction training has to be drilled in over time i guess, and just natural instinct,




oh and to the people who think chokes and holds are impossible to escape, i find locks and holds are easy to get out of, and not to mention easy tof end off and not let them even grab hold and keep you there, a simple eye poke with the thumbs or fingers, or grab there balls and squeeze, or fishhook there mouth or nose, bite them, foot stomp. holds are easy tog et out of, but int he ring im not sure, i dont roll around half naked with guys in a funky shaped ring persoally, the only rolling and grappling i do is in a street fight wich rarely ever goes tot he floor because i dont fight like that and i usually controll where the fight goes, (usually, because most people who start shit cant fight too good) i do grapple in training with my sparring partners but its not realistic because the moved we would use in real life situations cant be practiced on each other, can only use them in real fights.



peace,

__________________
-Before Guns Men Had Balls-
-Shaolin Warrior-

Tant01

..............................


Phui.... The reason it's called a "lock" is because you need the key to open it. I would love to spend 10 minutes with you to demonstrate the proper application a good hold or lock and just see if you can reach my eyes or face and if your teeth can clamp onto anything vital or if you really want to try to do that other thing with my testicles... If that's your anti grappling method you're in for a real wake up call if you ever fight a REAL grappler.

Escape is NOT impossible but it's not going to be easy...

I predict your tactics will fail to acomplish the goal and you will be seriously hurt.


Don't challenge any good graplers eh, Gong-Fu....? I'd hate to see your theory put to the test against a pro.

__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson

gong fu

i cannot test my "methods" on a grappler or yourself, i do not want to seriously injure or maim training partners, i only put deadly training to practice when its needed in self defence, but i could demonstrate to you something, you cannot get me in any hold whatsoever, where your face groin and ankles are all out of range simultaniously,


how can you lock me without either your face/neck, groin, or ankles bieng in range of either my head, legs/feet, hands/arms. its impossible to hold me in a real fight without me bieng able to fight back in some way, there is always a counter for anything anyone can throw at you, i would like to have a little match with you and i know where your comming from, but you know yourself in a real fight with no rules or ref, theres always something you can do no matter how "dirty" it is, also i am never unnarmed so a knife is always something a grappler should watch out for,


peace.

__________________
-Before Guns Men Had Balls-
-Shaolin Warrior-

jubaji

hahahahaaaaahahahahaaa

Well, there you have it!

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BoarSpear

dude you can certainly wrestle and grapple without injuring your opponent.
i have ALOT of ironpalm training, yet i still play rough with people, you just dont hit people hard enough to injure them...you can control the power you put into a strike. yes sometimes i accidentally stun someone when i catch them just right, no one dies ...a KO is a KO dude we dont get any special powers...no chi transfer is going to hurt an opponent, just heavy strikes...every actual martial artist has techniques he controls when sparring for safety sake. Dont limit yourself through fear of damaging an opponent, get in there and learn everything you can...i love it when we groundfight, think about having an opponent in your mount/guard and pummeling him with iron palm strikes to the head

Tant01

Funny stuff. It doesn't matter that each time you try to reach something with your arm you give up that arm and then the next and then if you still want to fight with two broken arms I can also break the legs, ankles or smaller bones in your foot...

A knife is useless if the fingers wrist elbow sholuder or clavical are damaged.

But I prefer to choke a stupid fighter to sleep myself.

__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson