Iron Fist or Iron Palm in UFC - Page 3

Sagacious Lu · 12-22-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstevens

Well, here's the problem with your logic. During the process of a squat, you assume stances which at times are deeper than a horse stance...

Well, there's your problem, you're doing horse stance wrong. Your feet are much wider in horse than they are during a squat. You don't even know what horse stance is and yet you're still willing to bash it

Tameo · 12-22-2005, 07:38 PM

try holding a horse stance all the way down for 10 minutes, i bet you cant do it if you do it the right way if you havent practiced them before. wrists should be at hips, elbows pulled back as far back with sides of fist still touching the hips, try bringing the elbows as close together as possible, a person should be able to stand above your knees (thats how low your stance should be, back streight, eyes focused on 1 point in front of you. you have to hold this position for as long as possible and not relax or look down for a second. result- work out for the legs that is way better than squats. Try doing other stances right after, not taking a break and transitioning to 10 different stances non stop 10 minutes each and your legs and shoulders should feel like they will fall of at any moment.

**Hardball** · 12-23-2005, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tameo

try holding a horse stance all the way down for 10 minutes, i bet you cant do it if you do it the right way if you havent practiced them before. wrists should be at hips, elbows pulled back as far back with sides of fist still touching the hips, try bringing the elbows as close together as possible, a person should be able to stand above your knees (thats how low your stance should be, back streight, eyes focused on 1 point in front of you. you have to hold this position for as long as possible and not relax or look down for a second. result- work out for the legs that is way better than squats. Try doing other stances right after, not taking a break and transitioning to 10 different stances non stop 10 minutes each and your legs and shoulders should feel like they will fall of at any moment.

Isn't that bad for your knees? Isn't that the point of martial arts evolution? To find better, and more healthier training methods. That's were the people in Arts and systems like Krav Magra are on to something. Evolve and change with the world. So many traditional martial artist have bad knees from this type of training; why not evolve and do something less harmful for you in the long run.

gong fu · 12-23-2005, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuk sool won

Gong Fu i find it hard to beleive you do all this training everyday, where do you find the time? Your always telling people what you can do and when you do it. Do you work? How do you support your family? Do you have a social life? Sorry if this sounds like a uninvited question about your personnal life but i don't know how people have so much time to do all this training, im lucky if i can do 1 1/2 hours a day sometimes...

yes im a PT (personal trainer) i also work part time in a gym, and i dabble in selling self defence gear, when i work i train, when i train i train, im training right now while typing to you with wrist weights on while i type,

when arent i training? i train while i sleep with the posture i sleep in (bow position), i train when i walk somewhere, i train with the way i sit down, i train with the way i just stand up, you can train every second of the day in some way, no matter what your doing,

all of my friends are martial artists. members of my family are military guys and fighters/martial artists, my wife does yoga and martial arrts, my coworkers are martial artists, its what i live man its all around me all day long,

yo can trainw hen your bieng social, you dont have to be in a gym or temple to train, you can trainw hile you eat, sleep, walk, drive, on the train, out in a club/bar, while at work no matter your job preference, watching TV, in the shower, you can train anywhere everywhere, you only need your body and a floor to train,

peace.

gong fu · 12-23-2005, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoarSpear

Anyway, back to topic. Ironpalm/fist dont make much difference once you put on gloves. Gloves screw up the angles you spent YEARS learning...they also change the way you deliver the strike. Virtually all ironpalm/fist training is to develop arcing or cannon strikes, neither of those work with gloves on.

the techniques were developed to allow FIGHTING without wrapping the hands for protection....the gloves dont enhance an ironpalm mans skills they detract from them...if you are fighting a boxer who trains wearing gloves he is gonna beat your ass while wearing gloves....outside the ring, no gloves and no rules the ironpalm guy has the advantage. The ironpalm guys hand will be faster

he can hit harder without fear of injuring his hands and he has angles a boxer never concieved. the boxer on the other hand has common weapons we all know (or should) and cant unload for fear of destroying his weapons...imagine multiple opponents and you break your hand on the first one

i have stated this many times in many threads regarding this topic, but people have a hard time understanding this, maybe due to lack of real first hand experience with conditining methods, but what you just stated is 100% true and people who know alot about the science behind conditioning will understand also, a simple factor people dont realise is bone isnt solid, it is made up of thousands of tiny pocket bubbles, like an aero chocolate bar. or like honeycombe, and the more you condition it, the bone gets more dense and compresses the bone pockets making them much harder after time, but yes conditioning has to be done with care and you have to be consistant,

peace.

gong fu · 12-23-2005, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstevens

Well, here's the problem with your logic. During the process of a squat, you assume stances which at times are deeper than a horse stance, while carrying significantly more weight. Because you can perform the squat in intervals, you can actually do it longer, and by increasing increments of weight, it produces more burn.

I've studied Choy Lit Fut for a short-period and stance training was very essential. At no time can I remember any of it being more physically demanding than doing squats. To believe otherwise is pure fantasy.

fantasy to some maybe, the person who trains incorrectly will blaim the style and regard it as useless throwing it into the wind, and when others seem to benefit from it better than he did, he dissrespects it,

anyway squats and stretches western taught are at most told to hold for about 14-18 seconds, go and hold a squat for 14 mins without moving, and see if it dosent burn more than doing your usual set and reps of squats. i bet holding the static stance maxes and burns your legs out more.

peace.

gong fu · 12-23-2005, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardball

Isn't that bad for your knees? Isn't that the point of martial arts evolution? To find better, and more healthier training methods. That's were the people in Arts and systems like Krav Magra are on to something. Evolve and change with the world. So many traditional martial artist have bad knees from this type of training; why not evolve and do something less harmful for you in the long run.

nah man, if its done correctly its not bad for your knees, look at all of the elderly people in china, there alot more mobile than the 80-90 year old guys over int he west, have you been to china and seen all of the people gathering early in the morning to do taiji/bagua training together as a community, children teenagers, elderly people middle aged peeps, it would be nice to see people do that in my area, but thats not gonna happen. elderly chinese peoples knees seem ok to me,

peace,

**Hardball** · 12-23-2005, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gong fu

yes im a PT (personal trainer) i also work part time in a gym, and i dabble in selling self defence gear, when i work i train, when i train i train, im training right now while typing to you with wrist weights on while i type,

when arent i training? i train while i sleep with the posture i sleep in (bow position), i train when i walk somewhere, i train with the way i sit down, i train with the way i just stand up, you can train every second of the day in some way, no matter what your doing,

all of my friends are martial artists. members of my family are military guys and fighters/martial artists, my wife does yoga and martial arrts, my coworkers are martial artists, its what i live man its all around me all day long,

yo can trainw hen your bieng social, you dont have to be in a gym or temple to train, you can trainw hile you eat, sleep, walk, drive, on the train, out in a club/bar, while at work no matter your job preference, watching TV, in the shower, you can train anywhere everywhere, you only need your body and a floor to train,
peace.

I strongly agree. I am the same way.

**Hardball** · 12-23-2005, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gong fu

nah man, if its done correctly its not bad for your knees, look at all of the elderly people in china, there alot more mobile than the 80-90 year old guys over int he west, have you been to china and seen all of the people gathering early in the morning to do taiji/bagua training together as a community, children teenagers, elderly people middle aged peeps, it would be nice to see people do that in my area, but thats not gonna happen. elderly chinese peoples knees seem ok to me,
peace,

Yes, I have heard about that and it is legendary. But tell me, are these tai chi practioners in Asia, really holding low stances or are they doing flowing, moving meditation in the form of tai chi katas. I may be confused but I don't recall seeing the low stances in tai chi forms that you are describing. Well, just in this months Issue of Inside Kung Fu magazine there is a big article of knee problems. It is called the Wu Shu Knee. It all stems from those unnatural low stances. You have to evolve and adapt. Combat is different now than it was when those stances were developed hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

jubaji · 12-23-2005, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gong fu

look at all of the elderly people in china, there alot more mobile than the 80-90 year old guys over int he west, have you been to china and seen all of the people gathering early in the morning to do taiji/bagua training together as a community,

Not too many of them old folks doing horse stances, though.

In fact, you're as likely to see old folks ballroom dancing as doing anything terribly 'martial'.

BoarSpear · 12-24-2005, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardball

Yes, I have heard about that and it is legendary. But tell me, are these tai chi practioners in Asia, really holding low stances or are they doing flowing, moving meditation in the form of tai chi katas. I may be confused but I don't recall seeing the low stances in tai chi forms that you are describing. Well, just in this months Issue of Inside Kung Fu magazine there is a big article of knee problems. It is called the Wu Shu Knee. It all stems from those unnatural low stances. You have to evolve and adapt. Combat is different now than it was when those stances were developed hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

Whether there are low postures depends on the frame of the style being practiced...

http://media.putfile.com/wushu

i believe his taiji would be said to have low postures

medic06 · 12-24-2005, 07:12 PM

Just looking at it has my knee hurting

Tai Chi Fighter · 12-24-2005, 08:56 PM

Now thats what I call a low stance. And I totally agree.

**Hardball** · 12-24-2005, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoarSpear

Whether there are low postures depends on the frame of the style being practiced...

http://media.putfile.com/wushu

i believe his taiji would be said to have low postures

Great coorborating vid. How did you find that so fast. can't argue with documentation. By-the-way, that looks like a wing chun form.

BoarSpear · 12-24-2005, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardball

Great coorborating vid. How did you find that so fast. can't argue with documentation. By-the-way, that looks like a wing chun form.

HEHEHE i had actually posted it before

...Its a Taiji form.

12-22-2005, 07:38 PM	#32 (permalink)
Tameo Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: California Posts: 384 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	try holding a horse stance all the way down for 10 minutes, i bet you cant do it if you do it the right way if you havent practiced them before. wrists should be at hips, elbows pulled back as far back with sides of fist still touching the hips, try bringing the elbows as close together as possible, a person should be able to stand above your knees (thats how low your stance should be, back streight, eyes focused on 1 point in front of you. you have to hold this position for as long as possible and not relax or look down for a second. result- work out for the legs that is way better than squats. Try doing other stances right after, not taking a break and transitioning to 10 different stances non stop 10 minutes each and your legs and shoulders should feel like they will fall of at any moment. __________________

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12-24-2005, 07:12 PM	#42 (permalink)
medic06 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,028 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just looking at it has my knee hurting

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