Tom Yum

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...97892170796596

The red shirt is Taiji; blue shirt is Shuaijiao. The format: Chinese style wrestling.

Both guys have excellent balance and sensitivity.

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jubaji

That did not look too great. Am I the only one who thinks a half-decent judoka would school either one of those boys badly?

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Bjjexpertise@be

Are shots looked down upon in Shuaijiao? The blue guy was standing straight up and I only saw him do a half hearted attempt at going for the legs.

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Tom Yum

Yeah. Its an amateur tournament, probably local vs. regional.

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BoarSpear

It isnt considered overly bright to lower the head and expose it and the neck to attack in Shuaijiao, they have a technique called "taking off the helmet" that pretty much makes it evident that the typical wrestling shot would have gotten you killed in an actual fight (by someone who knew that technique)....unless you have actually studied Shuai jiao or mongolian wrestling you probably havent seen the technique....No doubt the technique is illegal in competition because there is no way to do it without breaking the neck, however its existance was recognized when the sport was put together....its similiar to the 3 second window they require you to win with your grapple or release it because after that if you hadent finished or controlled the opponent a dirty tactic would have effected release in combat.


Okay you are free to throw your little tantrums now.....

Tom Yum

No tantrum here. Is "taking off the helmet" a neck crank done with bad intentions?

I believe shuai jiao and chin na both have alot of good stuff. The closest methods that I've come to those kinds of techniques are from the tukong musool system (Chinese influence, Korean synthesized).

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BoarSpear

hey Tom i knew YOU were too mature for a roll eyed tantrum yes its similiar to a neck crank done with VERY bad intention...often times the person executing will jump into the air as though swinging around a flag pole, while hanging on to your head instead of the flag pole

Tom Yum

Nice. I take it that comes from Mongolian Wrasslin'.

Not too many schools teach shuai-jiao & mongolian grappling.

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BoarSpear

As it was explained to me it was done when you lost your weapon and the opponent was wearing armor and wielding a weapon. They would grab the helmet and hook the thumbs under the brim before executing the throw. This was modified into grabbing the hair/ears or any other head handles before executing what became known as a spinning neck break. since its ALL illegal in ALL tourneys you dont see it in the schools, but since they dont allow the defense, the dont seem to allow the attack...they are trying to keep it "realistic" by doing this according to Adam Hsu (one of the board members of CSA) ...realistic went out the window the moment you disallowed strikes, since the whole freakin art is BASED off the Diagonal Strike of Mongolian wresting...it was the first striking technique and the basis for ALL application after the hands were untied ( from behind the back) and the helmets taken off from Go Ti (horn gore). Shuao Jiao was was further watered down to the point it is now. Now they expect you to throw someone who hasnt been slapped, stunned or unbalanced except through technique that translates into who is strongest in the real world and missed the whole point of the original art by a mile...

If you intercept the attack correctly it will unbalance your opponent the moment you bounce into whatever he extends, this is done by essentialy straight arming the opponent with an opposite hand and foot combination (left foot foward, right willow palm strike to opponents left side chest) as your foot stepped outside and behind the opponent, off his right hand lead....make sense?? its the technique that was modified into to "chin grab and trip" of WW2 combatives.

Bjjexpertise@be

I'm actually curious as to what this neck crank is like. What do you mean when you say it's like "swinging around the flagpole?"

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BoarSpear

have you ever swung around a flag pole? both feet in the air, the only reason you dont go flying is the grip on the flag pole as you spin around it...some people apply it as soon as they snake one hand around the neck and under the chin, others apply it with different grips...(i have even seen guillotine variations) and scarf hold variations...it works well from a MT clinch right after you throw a knee...its all in where you put that foot down after the knee

Bjjexpertise@be

I don't think I'm really getting the picture. So the guy has his arm around the guy's neck like a guillotine and he rolls?

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Tom Yum

No. You're a wrestler, right? From what he says it sounds like he cross faces the guy, pulls the neck crank but simultaneously kicks both legs into the air and turns over in mid air to get a....crack

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BoarSpear

yeah thats a pretty basic discription...there are multiple ways to set it up and many different actual handholds but that is the basic idea.

Bjjexpertise@be

Ahh I get it now.

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