Rear hand backfist?

aku aku · 06-30-2006, 09:56 PM

Hello,

I'm wondering about this strike from the kung fu class. It's kind of a backfist with the rear hand. The teacher described it like throwing a baseball but you turn you hand over and hit with the back knuckles. What are your opinions of this? Strengths, weaknesses, when and how is it used? After working with it I can see how it could be effective but I can't help wondering if a simple straight punch wouldn't be a better choice most of the time?

Shard · 07-01-2006, 12:31 AM

Hmmm, it seems like that technique is going to take too much time to pull off and the pay-off vs. the risk isn't high enough. And it sounds like a fancy haymaker if i'm getting it right.
Not only is a swing like that easy to block bit its not going to be very hard hitting if it lands. You're better off with a "Cross" type of punch.

The main reason behind the back fist is that its fast and its keeps you relavtively well defended when striking.
Thats why its done with the lead hand. The angle at which it fires out and comes back in leaves very little opening for the opponent.

aku aku · 07-01-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shard

Hmmm, it seems like that technique is going to take too much time to pull off and the pay-off vs. the risk isn't high enough.

That's what I thought at first. It travels a longer distance but, when you really throw it, it can be pretty quick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shard

And it sounds like a fancy haymaker if i'm getting it right.

It isn't really a wide, swinging, almost uncontrolled punch like a haymaker. Imagine you're holding a hammer and you want to hit a nail on the wall in front of you. Only you turn your hand over and hit with the back knuckles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shard

Not only is a swing like that easy to block bit its not going to be very hard hitting if it lands. You're better off with a "Cross" type of punch.

That's what I was wondering. I haven't been working it very long though, when it's fully developed and you use it correctly it might be more impressive. Does anyone have more experience with this than I do?

bjjp · 07-01-2006, 05:46 PM

well in a lot of schools the back fist is just to start the fight like some say dont give them a back fist then jump away and say what now,cause that will just piss them off,they say the back fist is a punch to start it andwhen you got them dazed finish it with every thang else.

Shard · 07-02-2006, 04:47 AM

hmmm... it would be a lot more helpful if you had a short clip to show it in action.
So do you mean its like a cross but you turn your fist at the last minute? Like that "special move" jet li does in "Fearless"?
Thats called a corkscrew punch. If thats the move you're talking about then aim for the solar plexus. Its the best punch to knock the wind out of someone. somewhat diffcult to land though.

A back fist is usually named such because its the back of the fist that does the hit. I.e. the lead back fist, where the palm is facing yourself when you hit your opponent.

BoarSpear · 07-02-2006, 05:02 AM

It sounds like maybe he's trying to describe Za Shi Chui or 'Flying into the forest" transition into a splitting fist from Sun Style's second section of the 12 forms commonly called eagle form or Ying xing. Application to that movement is a downward backfist onto the bridge of the nose with the rear hand as the front hand clears a grapple attempt in a downward sweeping motion.

As with all the transitions Sun intended you to be moving from San Ti to draw the grapple to the lead hand. Typically the CMA's theories and principles are based upon "space occupation" by placing the lead hand partially extended and on centerline between and the opponent it forced you to deal with that hand. In this case thier theory was they knew where you would be when clearing that hand and thats where the rear hand struck and from an unusual angle to further the surprise and chance of success.

aku aku · 07-02-2006, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shard

So do you mean its like a cross but you turn your fist at the last minute? Like that "special move" jet li does in "Fearless"?
Thats called a corkscrew punch.

It's not a corkscrew punch or even a thrust. It's like throwing a ball using an overhand motion or like hammering a nail into a wall only hitting with the backfist instead of a hammer. I apologize for not having a video to show.

BoarSpear,

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with 'Flying into the forest' but, from your description, it sounds something like that.

Mephariel · 07-02-2006, 04:13 PM

I think basically what he is saying is simply you have a nail hanging on a wall, and you want to use your fist to hit it in, you can use your back fist and launch a short strike smiliar to the motion of a hammer hitting a nail each time.

BoarSpear · 07-02-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aku aku

I
BoarSpear,

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with 'Flying into the forest' but, from your description, it sounds something like that.

Okay, think bow and arrow stance, now throw a downward arcing backfist with the rear hand.

aku aku · 07-02-2006, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoarSpear

Okay, think bow and arrow stance, now throw a downward arcing backfist with the rear hand.

Yeah, that sounds right.

06-30-2006, 09:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
aku aku Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Oakdale, MN Posts: 209	Rear hand backfist? Hello, I'm wondering about this strike from the kung fu class. It's kind of a backfist with the rear hand. The teacher described it like throwing a baseball but you turn you hand over and hit with the back knuckles. What are your opinions of this? Strengths, weaknesses, when and how is it used? After working with it I can see how it could be effective but I can't help wondering if a simple straight punch wouldn't be a better choice most of the time?

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07-01-2006, 12:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
Shard Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 180	Hmmm, it seems like that technique is going to take too much time to pull off and the pay-off vs. the risk isn't high enough. And it sounds like a fancy haymaker if i'm getting it right. Not only is a swing like that easy to block bit its not going to be very hard hitting if it lands. You're better off with a "Cross" type of punch. The main reason behind the back fist is that its fast and its keeps you relavtively well defended when striking. Thats why its done with the lead hand. The angle at which it fires out and comes back in leaves very little opening for the opponent.

07-01-2006, 05:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
bjjp Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 82	well in a lot of schools the back fist is just to start the fight like some say dont give them a back fist then jump away and say what now,cause that will just piss them off,they say the back fist is a punch to start it andwhen you got them dazed finish it with every thang else.

07-02-2006, 04:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
Shard Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 180	hmmm... it would be a lot more helpful if you had a short clip to show it in action. So do you mean its like a cross but you turn your fist at the last minute? Like that "special move" jet li does in "Fearless"? Thats called a corkscrew punch. If thats the move you're talking about then aim for the solar plexus. Its the best punch to knock the wind out of someone. somewhat diffcult to land though. A back fist is usually named such because its the back of the fist that does the hit. I.e. the lead back fist, where the palm is facing yourself when you hit your opponent.

07-02-2006, 05:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
BoarSpear Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,729	It sounds like maybe he's trying to describe Za Shi Chui or 'Flying into the forest" transition into a splitting fist from Sun Style's second section of the 12 forms commonly called eagle form or Ying xing. Application to that movement is a downward backfist onto the bridge of the nose with the rear hand as the front hand clears a grapple attempt in a downward sweeping motion. As with all the transitions Sun intended you to be moving from San Ti to draw the grapple to the lead hand. Typically the CMA's theories and principles are based upon "space occupation" by placing the lead hand partially extended and on centerline between and the opponent it forced you to deal with that hand. In this case thier theory was they knew where you would be when clearing that hand and thats where the rear hand struck and from an unusual angle to further the surprise and chance of success.

07-02-2006, 04:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mephariel Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 239	I think basically what he is saying is simply you have a nail hanging on a wall, and you want to use your fist to hit it in, you can use your back fist and launch a short strike smiliar to the motion of a hammer hitting a nail each time.

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