The Ultimate in Martial Arts

andyb · 06-01-2009, 12:58 AM

for the same reason people thought muskets were great until someone invented the gattling gun

Ben Grimm · 06-01-2009, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neltharius

Competing in martial arts usually involves hurting someone when you don't have to, though the presence of monks in competitive martial arts is slowly increasing because of the recent leniency of the temple.

There really aren't too many warrior monks there. Most of them are posers or ex-military guys who get looked after by the PRC owned Shaolin temple.

Sly Dog · 06-01-2009, 08:20 PM

Well, it's been a while since I've posted here, but since I received an alert for this forum, here goes....

It is important to define martial in martial arts. Most that claim themselves a martial art are not. Most are "martial" sports. That includes anything competitive. "Martial" necessarily means combat, not competition. Having said that, Chinese martial arts are much the same as martial arts from other countries if it is being used for combat. In combat situations there are no points, there is no ring, or sponsors, or purse, there is only pain, terror, blood and death.

Combat is no longer conducted with long staves, swords or archane moves; neither is combat conducted with grappling. If you've ever faced off with someone holding a knife and knows how to use it, grappling will be the last choice of attack or defense. If you are facing someone holding a handgun, punching and kicking are completely useless until you've neutralized the threat.

If you want to continue discussing which "martial" sport is the best and who can beat who, that's fine, but when you actually inject real combat into real fighting you will discover that the rules are completely changed, and you will fight to your lowest level of traing.

jubaji · 06-01-2009, 08:57 PM

Here we go again...

Ben Grimm · 06-01-2009, 08:58 PM

Will it ever stop?

pstevens · 06-01-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Grimm

Will it ever stop?

Probably not, so pull up a seat and grab a beer.

Paul

Ben Grimm · 06-01-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstevens

Probably not, so pull up a seat and grab a beer.

Paul

Done and done.

Ben Grimm · 06-10-2009, 12:47 AM

I'm just going to end this thread right here by saying this. It's the person who makes the style work for them which determines whether that art is useful or not. It is not the style that makes the person.

ebozzz · 06-10-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Grimm

I'm just going to end this thread right here by saying this. It's the person who makes the style work for them which determines whether that art is useful or not. It is not the style that makes the person.

I agree but wouldn't you agree that some styles are better suited to certain individuals?

WildWest. · 06-10-2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebozzz

I agree but wouldn't you agree that some styles are better suited to certain individuals?

Very true.

As a male adult in his early 30's, I struggle to wear childrens clothes.

Ben Grimm · 06-10-2009, 08:44 PM

I'm not going to dispute that. But what I'm saying, is that there is no such thing as an ultimate style.

ebozzz · 06-10-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Grimm

I'm not going to dispute that. But what I'm saying, is that there is no such thing as an ultimate style.

Ben, I think that we are saying the same thing but the context of how we are saying it is just a little different. I believe that some styles are more comprehensive than others so in that sense they may be considered more of an ultimate art but if the practitioner does not have sufficient knowledge & skill in that art, there is nothing ultimate about it at all. The individual is the key.

I would much rather be very adept at performing a few skills than poorly trained at many. However, if a person could become very accomplished in that comprehensive style that should in theory produce a better martial artist. What I just offered is less than 2 cents in value but that's my take on it.

Ben Grimm · 06-11-2009, 12:59 AM

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. The individual is the essential element. I'm also quite similar to you in preferring to master a few skills then have a lot of half assed moves. Shi To Ryu has 50 kata. Right now I'm just content with becoming proficient with one and learning the applications before moving on to the next.

Kintanon · 07-01-2009, 02:53 PM

But if your training method is one that never has you pressure test those techniques you are learning then you will never be able to apply them in a stressful situation, which makes them useless. Since most CMAs don't spar, and don't pressure test that makes the entire art useless even if the techniques would be effective with proper training.
Good training methods with pressure testing for effectiveness also has the added bonus effect of weeding out techniques that just plain don't work or are too complicated to pull of in realistic situations.

ebozzz · 07-02-2009, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kintanon

But if your training method is one that never has you pressure test those techniques you are learning then you will never be able to apply them in a stressful situation, which makes them useless. Since most CMAs don't spar, and don't pressure test that makes the entire art useless even if the techniques would be effective with proper training.
Good training methods with pressure testing for effectiveness also has the added bonus effect of weeding out techniques that just plain don't work or are too complicated to pull of in realistic situations.

I don't know where you get the idea that most CMAs don't spar. Every CMA situation that I have been involved with has sparred and hard!

View Poll Results: Just to settle, chinese martial arts, useful or not?
Yep	58	77.33%
Nope	17	22.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

06-01-2009, 12:58 AM	#61 (permalink)
andyb Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	for the same reason people thought muskets were great until someone invented the gattling gun
	0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

06-01-2009, 08:20 PM	#63 (permalink)
Sly Dog Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 17 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, it's been a while since I've posted here, but since I received an alert for this forum, here goes.... It is important to define martial in martial arts. Most that claim themselves a martial art are not. Most are "martial" sports. That includes anything competitive. "Martial" necessarily means combat, not competition. Having said that, Chinese martial arts are much the same as martial arts from other countries if it is being used for combat. In combat situations there are no points, there is no ring, or sponsors, or purse, there is only pain, terror, blood and death. Combat is no longer conducted with long staves, swords or archane moves; neither is combat conducted with grappling. If you've ever faced off with someone holding a knife and knows how to use it, grappling will be the last choice of attack or defense. If you are facing someone holding a handgun, punching and kicking are completely useless until you've neutralized the threat. If you want to continue discussing which "martial" sport is the best and who can beat who, that's fine, but when you actually inject real combat into real fighting you will discover that the rules are completely changed, and you will fight to your lowest level of traing. __________________ The perfect Blade must be perfectly tempered

06-01-2009, 08:57 PM	#64 (permalink)
jubaji Registered Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: koko Posts: 10,108 Groans: 0 Groaned at 38 Times in 38 Posts	Here we go again... __________________ Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts.

06-01-2009, 08:58 PM	#65 (permalink)
Ben Grimm Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: China Posts: 622 Groans: 13 Groaned at 26 Times in 26 Posts	Will it ever stop? __________________ Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. Albert Einstein When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity. Albert Einstein

06-10-2009, 12:47 AM	#68 (permalink)
Ben Grimm Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: China Posts: 622 Groans: 13 Groaned at 26 Times in 26 Posts	I'm just going to end this thread right here by saying this. It's the person who makes the style work for them which determines whether that art is useful or not. It is not the style that makes the person. __________________ Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. Albert Einstein When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity. Albert Einstein
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

06-10-2009, 08:44 PM	#71 (permalink)
Ben Grimm Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: China Posts: 622 Groans: 13 Groaned at 26 Times in 26 Posts	I'm not going to dispute that. But what I'm saying, is that there is no such thing as an ultimate style. __________________ Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. Albert Einstein When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity. Albert Einstein

06-11-2009, 12:59 AM	#73 (permalink)
Ben Grimm Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: China Posts: 622 Groans: 13 Groaned at 26 Times in 26 Posts	That's pretty much what I was trying to say. The individual is the essential element. I'm also quite similar to you in preferring to master a few skills then have a lot of half assed moves. Shi To Ryu has 50 kata. Right now I'm just content with becoming proficient with one and learning the applications before moving on to the next. __________________ Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. Albert Einstein When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity. Albert Einstein
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

07-01-2009, 02:53 PM	#74 (permalink)
Kintanon Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 20 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	But if your training method is one that never has you pressure test those techniques you are learning then you will never be able to apply them in a stressful situation, which makes them useless. Since most CMAs don't spar, and don't pressure test that makes the entire art useless even if the techniques would be effective with proper training. Good training methods with pressure testing for effectiveness also has the added bonus effect of weeding out techniques that just plain don't work or are too complicated to pull of in realistic situations.
	0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

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