SmallThought

I'm sure it relates to all these things. "Formidable", however, means difficult to overcome. Surely one must be fit, but to build ones-self in an attempt to be "bigger & stronger" is contrary to this philosophy.

Further: no amount of weight training will help develop the fine motor skills required for Wing Chun, although there are certain resistance techniques that will. Far better would be to concentrate on good cardio fitness so as to have a steadier heart rate in pressure situations, there by maintaining a higher degree of fine motor control. All Wing Chun conditioning training can be performed with out the aid of weights, but whether you use them (weights) or not is a personal choice.

Peace out.

Ghost

we will have to agree to disagree then methinks.

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SmallThought

Well put, i heartily concur!

Good luck with your training.
Peace out!

freefighter2010

I think its good to train with weights so long as you include plylometrics in your workout and this will build speed and strenght.

As they say in physics force = mass x acceleration

Jujujason

Some of the fastest, most powerful athletes in the world are also the biggest and strongest. Football players and Olympic sprinters/hurdlers can run incredibly fast and are amazingly agile in spite of having huge, muscular legs. High/Long/Triple jumpers display a lot of explosive power in their events and all are avid weight lifters. Basketball players lift weights so that they can take off from the free throw line and slam dunk a basketball. Only traditional martial artists adhere to the philosophy that weight training somehow makes one slow.

Jujujason

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention the example of all those homerun hitters slamming the ball outta the park. Sosa, McGuire, Giambi, etc... All those guys were lifting weights (in addition to the steroids) to become faster and more powerful.

bodhisattva

Absolutely so.

The earlier statement that said "Squats build different muscles than you need for wing chun" or whatever it said had me laughing.

What on earth? Wing Chun uses special "Wing Chun" muscles? Oh. Too bad. I only have "human muscles." You know, the kind that benefit from hard physical exercise - like squats!

You go on and use your "wing chun" muscles. I'll use my thicker, stronger muscles.

I guess that's where all the kata come in - they give a person "wing chun" muscles. I had no idea.

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Grixti

can anyone suggest some decent polymetric exersizes that would be good for martial arts, or any kind of fighting stye?

SmallThought

May i reitterate that it was never my contention that "weight training makes you slow". One can train with weights in many different ways to enhance either fast or slow twitch fibres, as well as to develop explosive power or shear "strength".

My contention was, and remains (and only in relation to Wing Chun as i have trained it for the past 13 years), that training with weights hinders the practitioners ability to master the principle of "do not fight force with force"; that being the primary principle of the system.

In any form of weight training you are using your own strength (force) to move &/or resist a counter force (the weight)... this is in contradiction to the principle mentioned above.

Now, before we get into the, "oh, so your saying that no resistance training can be performed to practice Wing Chun, ipso facto one can not practice forms because standing in the stance requires you to fight the force of gravity"..... no. Resistance training is beneficial. My point being that "lifting weights" can hamper the beginner-intermediate students ability to grasp the funtamental principle.

Understanding this is what enabled me to become technically superior to the bigger, stronger "weight trainers" in our classes. I didn't have the strength to fight their force, so it was necessary for me to develop foot work, range, timing, positioning, tactics and the bio-mechanical structure with in techniques. This is what is refered to in Wing Chun as learning to "fight like a woman".

As i say, i am ONLY refering to that basic principle with in the system of Wing Chun Kung Fu.

Cheers all...

SmallThought

And as for "Wing Chun Muscles", that's just silly. All fitness is specific to the action performed. Certain muscle groups and even areas with in those muscle groups can be developed using "specific training methods".

Squats, deadlifts will definitely make you stronger, but they will not make you run faster or longer. To gain these benefits, you must train to specifically enhance them.

How ever you put it, what ever you call the excersises, you must "train for what you do".

Have fun...