BajiQuan - Page 2

Tom Yum · 09-23-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Thats because you don't have any idea what you are looking at. Everything you have been taught is about generating power through sheer muscle in one area of your body and not by using the whole body to generate it.

The power from a boxing punch requires coordination and power from lower and upperbody as well. The punch begins with a slight spring from the legs, whipping of the hips and snapping the punch through the target.

From my general observation of the Chinese arts, the power seems 'rooted' in lower stances than boxing, taking advantage of the ability to explode upward and outward to its target (using much more leg power) rather than straight in.

That's why the small instructor in the video I posted is able to move those larger guys with ease, I assume.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Therefore arguing with you any more on this matter would be a waste of time till you understand the basic concepts of what makes CMA's work.

But thanks for at least taking the time to watch them

Something else I notice is that internal arts practitioners like to keep body to body contact with their opponent to use leverage to set up sweeps, throws and strikes depending on their opponent's moves - the instructor for example pulling his opponent down, while launching an upward strike. And he admits that if his next move (a throw - fails) he is still in position to strike the head or even the groin.

Lots of flexibility.

Jiujitsu and Muaythai may be more external martial arts and sport-focused today, but at different points in history they were arts that killed the enemy or opponent on the battlefield. Jiujitsu was used for Samurai whom lost their swords; muaythai was used by thai soldiers whom lost sword or staff and evolved from a weapon art (krabi krabong). And both arts are rich in history, where practitioners used their hands to kill.

The million dollar question: how do you keep a traditional art alive and deadly that is not used in the battlefield or watered down but applied in competition?

**kingoftheforest** · 09-23-2007, 07:18 PM

Some of these comments may not be directed at anyone in particular so unbunch all your panties now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

The power from a boxing punch requires coordination and power from lower and upper body as well. The punch begins with a slight spring from the legs, whipping of the hips and snapping the punch through the target.

This argument has been going on for ages and I am not going to have it again. If you try what you have just mentioned with a boxing punch and stance as it is stated here without varying you will fall flat on your face. You have to adjust and it takes away from the power. If anyone wants to argue this again don't count on a response from me because I only argue in the realm of reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

From my general observation of the Chinese arts, the power seems 'rooted' in lower stances than boxing, taking advantage of the ability to explode upward and outward to its target (using much more leg power) rather than straight in.

That's why the small instructor in the video I posted is able to move those larger guys with ease, I assume.

While I have been practicing everyday for about 7 years in the CMA's so my observation wouldn't be as astute as someone who started a thread about wanting to finally start learning them. Not to be rude but it seems that what I say about CMA's gets blown off a lot on this forum by people who have squat for experience while I have worked 2 jobs and practiced CMA's everyday for 7 years, but you all what to play the experience card when someone argues with you. Root does have a lot to do with the power generated but it also relies on the ability to use the entire body. This conserves energy and generates greater power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Something else I notice is that internal arts practitioners like to keep body to body contact with their opponent to use leverage to set up sweeps, throws and strikes depending on their opponent's moves - the instructor for example pulling his opponent down, while launching an upward strike. And he admits that if his next move (a throw - fails) he is still in position to strike the head or even the groin.

Lots of flexibility

This is to take root away from the opponent because an internal martial artists understands the importance of a good foundation and where weight should be distributed. If you cannot hold yourself up how will you generate power to punch?

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Jiujitsu and Muaythai may be more external martial arts and sport-focused today, but at different points in history they were arts that killed the enemy or opponent on the battlefield. Jiujitsu was used for Samurai whom lost their swords; muaythai was used by thai soldiers whom lost sword or staff and evolved from a weapon art (krabi krabong). And both arts are rich in history, where practitioners used their hands to kill.

The million dollar question: how do you keep a traditional art alive and deadly that is not used in the battlefield or watered down but applied in competition?

Simple don't add rules. Flexibility in the art and not saying "You can't do that".

7r14ngL3Ch0k3 · 09-23-2007, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Everything you have been taught is about generating power through sheer muscle in one area of your body and not by using the whole body to generate it.

Therefore arguing with you any more on this matter would be a waste of time till you understand the basic concepts of what makes CMA's work.

isnt that a basic concept of all or most striking arts in general? Muay thai for example teaches you how to throw your whole body into a strike as does Boxing. what is so special about Kung Fu then?

DickHardman · 09-23-2007, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7r14ngL3Ch0k3

isnt that a basic concept of all or most striking arts in general? Muay thai for example teaches you how to throw your whole body into a strike as does Boxing.

yup. and they do it more effectively and generate more power.

Ghost · 09-24-2007, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

This argument has been going on for ages and I am not going to have it again. If you try what you have just mentioned with a boxing punch and stance as it is stated here without varying you will fall flat on your face. You have to adjust and it takes away from the power. If anyone wants to argue this again don't count on a response from me because I only argue in the realm of reality.

what does this mean? how would you fall flat on your face, tom yums description is exactly what happens with a boxing punch.

Tom Yum · 09-24-2007, 03:04 PM

KOTF, I wasn't arguing with you and what you've said about CMA's is not blown off by most.

**kingoftheforest** · 09-24-2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

KOTF, I wasn't arguing with you and what you've said about CMA's is not blown off by most.

Sorry Tom I wasn't saying you were arguing with me

.I was just foreseeing the posts about how all fighting styles claim to generate power by using body whip in theory but in reality they actually don't. Wording was a little off had a long day when I posted that.

And I think you may be the only person here who actually reads what I post and has any inkling of understanding.

7r14ngL3Ch0k3 · 09-24-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

.I was just foreseeing the posts about how all fighting styles claim to generate power by using body whip in theory but in reality they actually don't

well , explain please, even if youve explained this before, do it again. we dont want to be left in the dark.

**kingoftheforest** · 09-24-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7r14ngL3Ch0k3

well , explain please, even if you've explained this before, do it again. we don't want to be left in the dark.

Start by finding yourself an explanation of the one inch punch. When you learn how to do that you'll began to understand a little.

It's much more satisfying to figure these things out through your own research.

Besides I wouldn't want to elicit anything that would be anymore weaksauce to you. From your comments on that clip I posted you seem to be more aware of how CMA's work than I do.

jubaji · 09-24-2007, 09:26 PM

A lot of the comments on this thread demonstrate why certain CMA folks can't manage a conversation with anyone except other CMA folks (and often aren't taken seriously by anyone else). Might want to think about what really lies behind that...

knifethrower · 09-24-2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Start by finding yourself an explanation of the one inch punch. When you learn how to do that you'll began to understand a little.

Yep…that’s how I did it long before I had a teacher or a form. Careful, 7r14ngL3Ch0k3… if you do the one inch punch wrong there is a chance you can really SCREW your back. I did.

It’s much better and safer to learn it through a form.

jubaji · 09-24-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baji87

My name's Eric, I'm 21, from America, and I live and work in China, in Shandong Province. I'll be here a while.

Now, I wish I could ask the locals, but at the moment my Chinese is extremely poor, and the ones I do manage to communicate with know nothing or next to it. Something I keep hearing is that Bajiquan is practised by very few people. And those that DO know, well, even if their conversational English is good, there knowledge of Wushu is not usually wholly and completely transferable. And yes, I am working on improving my Chinese as well.

I have been looking for a Martial Art that was right for me, and I am pretty much convinced with what I've seen and read. Of course experience and time will be the only true tell, but before I decide who to learn from, I have to (want to) understand what my options are...something I am currently mixed up with.

I've read ALL the pages I could (yes, i've read bajimen...), but all the information is very generalized and I am looking for a bit of detail and history.

I understand that Bajiquan is an Art Form, and in that Art Form there are different styles and families. I've heard of the Wu, Huo, and Liu families (and many listed on Bajimen with no actual details about the different styles).

I really want to know, if anyone does:

1) What are all the different styles/families/branches/etc of Bajiquan existing in and outside of China today?

2) Where are they from and where are they mostly practised today?

3) What similarities do they share and what makes them different?

4) What are the most traditional of these styles? And what's your definition of traditional?

5) The Forms: It's my understanding that there are 20 (?) standard forms that are shared by all branches of Bajiquan...is this accurate? If so, what are they all?

Also, I've heard people from the Liu family style say in their history of Baji that Wu Zhong had no descendants, and yet I've also heard many others say the the man by the name of Wu Lian Zhi in Mencun, Hebei (Baji's birthplace, apparently) who is the head of the Wu Family Style, is Wu Zhong lineage (in fact i've even seen a provided family tree of it)...Does anyone know for sure?

I hope that any of you might be able to assist my curiosity...I know I ask a lot...and I'm sure I'll have more questions, too...but I thought that the Martial Arts Forums would be the best place for this post.

Thanks,

Eric

Hey man, how long have you been over there? I'd say your best bet is to find a few students who study MA and ask them to introduce you to the scene around your area. Don't be too picky about what you study at first, just get started. You will then meet more people in the know and can adjust your focus as you go. Go with the flow and see where it takes you. Anyone hell bent on sticking to THEIR pre-planned way of doing things is gonna end up mighty frustrated in China.

Enjoy the experience, the food, and the great people there.

jubaji · 09-24-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knifethrower

Yep…that’s how I did it long before I had a teacher or a form. Careful, 7r14ngL3Ch0k3… if you do the one inch punch wrong there is a chance you can really SCREW your back. I did.

It’s much better and safer to learn it through a form.

Wow, how did you punch yourself in the back? You must be flexible as all hell.

jubaji · 09-24-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baji87

You say I am not asking the right questions...I disagree...I'm asking all the questions I need or would liked answered from here.

Don't worry about Boarspear. He's not going to say anything that doesn't serve to inflate his own ego.

**kingoftheforest** · 09-24-2007, 09:37 PM

Thanks for the input knifethrower. I can tell a lot of people on this forum feel that even though they have not studied as much into MA's in general due to their ignorance (which isn't a put down because ignorance is only temporary if you try to resolve it) in the statements they make that explaining things to them is a waste of time. If someone is rude to me then asks me to help them understand something they constantly put down I don't feel it's worth the waste of my time.

I learned a lot of this on my own without realizing it and a little push in the right direction here or there helped me out a lot with the CMA's. Of course I wasn't putting down the people trying to help me then asking them to explain themselves. I guess having an open mind and not thinking I knew it all already helped a lot.

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09-24-2007, 03:04 PM	#21 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,304 Groans: 0 Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts	KOTF, I wasn't arguing with you and what you've said about CMA's is not blown off by most. __________________ Love it, leave it or fix it.

09-24-2007, 09:26 PM	#25 (permalink)
jubaji Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: koko Posts: 8,789 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	A lot of the comments on this thread demonstrate why certain CMA folks can't manage a conversation with anyone except other CMA folks (and often aren't taken seriously by anyone else). Might want to think about what really lies behind that... __________________ Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts.

09-24-2007, 09:37 PM	#30 (permalink)
kingoftheforest Premiere Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In the forest of course Posts: 1,385 Groans: 1 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Some people know it all already. Thanks for the input knifethrower. I can tell a lot of people on this forum feel that even though they have not studied as much into MA's in general due to their ignorance (which isn't a put down because ignorance is only temporary if you try to resolve it) in the statements they make that explaining things to them is a waste of time. If someone is rude to me then asks me to help them understand something they constantly put down I don't feel it's worth the waste of my time. I learned a lot of this on my own without realizing it and a little push in the right direction here or there helped me out a lot with the CMA's. Of course I wasn't putting down the people trying to help me then asking them to explain themselves. I guess having an open mind and not thinking I knew it all already helped a lot. __________________ The actions one takes are answered by consequences waiting at their conclusion. There are no exceptions. http://destructionscreation.deviantart.com/gallery/

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