BajiQuan - Page 4

Tom Yum · 09-25-2007, 09:41 PM

I've stuided Chinese-influenced systems but not gong fu; those where one of the founders was either Chinese, then went on to another country in the 20th century or came from a Buddhist temple. Therefore, I'm not even qualified to talk about the TCMAs, which I admit I am an outsider.

The only appreciation I have is from what I see and from what has been demonstrated on me from talking to/hanging out with TCMA practitioners.

I'm not here to defend any particular system, because I have an appreciation for martial arts, period. Whether that system is qin-na or capeira and can use its training realistically, I am interested.

jubaji · 09-25-2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Therefore, I'm not even qualified to talk about the TCMAs.

Of course not. Only KOTF is.

knifethrower · 09-25-2007, 11:48 PM

Dude…...............

.

Ghost · 09-26-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Yes that's it Ghost. I realized that I am talking out of my ass. I realized that when a boxer turns his hand over to punch with the traditional boxing punch that it changes the muscle dynamic in his body stealing all the power generated from his root and taking the whip out. I realized that in changing the lineup of tendons and muscles in his body that he must use his shoulder strength to put power behind the punch.

I realized that he has to move his rear leg forward which is not mentioned in any explanation of a boxing punch or he will land flat on his face. This movement of the legs eats up the power generated by his hips.

I realized that only in the jab the weakest of boxing punches does a boxer not need to create an arch to generate force in his punch causing it to take longer for the punch to reach my opponent, leaving more of my body exposed for his attack.

I realized that most boxing matches go 6-10 rounds of guys landing these so called astronomically hard punches on each others body's and head's not causing knockouts, sometimes causing knockdowns. I also realized that boxing is a sport which has rules. Fighting arts, real ones, don't have rules because they can be used anywhere any time, without gloves, a ring , or referees.

I realized that by keeping the fist aligned with the arm and not turning it against the natural body position by not stepping and by not needing to create an arch, that I
1. Can reach my opponent faster.
2. Can generate more force from my hips and not over extend my body.
3. Continue that force into my opponent without losing it.
4. Keep more of my body covered and defended because I don't need to arch my punch.
5. Knock my opponent back and or to the ground from a shorter distance.
6. Not give up my root by raising my rear heel to throw the punch.

Of course this is all against the popular opinion and I am sure wrong. Plus I am just being a superior jackass here. I mean why should I be defensive when all my other posts on CMA's are basically ridiculed here.

I would be more than happy to be polite and clear on what I am saying but when what you say is instantly ridiculed called weak and then people ask for a polite explanation I don't feel I should do anything but return the favor in kind.

The only person in this thread who has even been remotely polite is Tom Yum but that seems to be old hat for this forum.

So there's your explanation I am sure you won't be happy with it, but if people want to start being polite I'll be more than happy to return the favor and stop with the sarcasm. Mike Brewer was more than kind when I started reposting, he was polite with me and I had no problem returning the favor. I even had no problem having civil conversations with Dariannation. But if you just want to ridicule and be rude then expect the same in return.

Thank you
KOTF

that was the biggest pile of crap ive ever read on this or any other forum.
i should barely dignify this with a response.

go an learn something about boxing before you post trash.
your other posts on this thread show how little you really know as everyone has already pointed out to you

jubaji · 09-26-2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

jubaji, cut it out.

KOTF has made some honest, valid, and solid points. What say we let this one evolve into an actual discussion and confine the insults and predictable banter to threads in which they are already established themes?

Think about how much more productive it could be if he didn't spend half the time telling everyone else that their views matter less than his and that he really shouldn't "waste his time" on people who are unwilling to concede his view as a precondition for any further discussion.

jubaji · 09-26-2007, 01:21 PM

Not fer nothin' but Tom said much the same things at the beginning of this thread and was met with "its a waste of time to talk to you," "you don't understand," and "I've spent X years doing X so I know and you don't" or, if you read the whole thread you will see, words very much to that effect. This attitude, coupled with "Why, oh why, don't TCMA get the respect I think they deserve?" and you have a 'discussion' that amounts to "agree with me or STFU." Its like he's channeling Boar in that respect.

I'd like to see more discussions about TCMA too, but not ones that are predicated on silly notions and/or exclusivity. No matter how many times you tell him that boxers (and anyone else who wants to punch with power) do in fact generate power using the legs, center, etc. he will not believe you, and will in fact dismiss you as not "getting it." Mark my words, if allowed to go unchallenged, the suggestion that fajing is a superpower will creep in here sooner or later.

I'm not sniping, I'm not putting down TCMA or any other MA. I'd just like to see a rational approach to the subject and a little less crying anytime a self-professed 'unimpeachable' expert feels disrespected because anyone refuses to swallow anything he says whole and unexamined. That's all. Those who wish to cry troll may do so all they want, but if TCMA can't be discussed as directly and rationally as boxing or anything else, sooner or later you're gonna be up to your ears in Chi-balls and Kamehamehas.

jubaji · 09-26-2007, 02:23 PM

Is saying "talking to you is a waste of time" personal or not?

**kingoftheforest** · 09-26-2007, 03:42 PM

I have not said in any of my posts that boxing is crap or less than CMA's. I pointed out that the punching power from many striking arts relies on muscle power and not "full body power". I stated that the way a properly trained CMA practitioner punches is more energy efficient and can produce more power from a shorter distance.

I believe I placed a video up that was called "weaksauce" and people began belittling my views and the views of my teacher first. If you want me to be polite to you be polite to me I think that is fair. It works out in discussions with me and Mr. Brewer and I am sure he will vouch that in itself is a very big difference from my previous posts on this forum. If people want to be rude and belittle me fine but expect it back. I see that as only being fair.

My explanation of the difference in a boxing punch and how it generates power and how a CMA punch generates power through the use of muscle and skeletal structure would be verified by any doctor who has studied muscle and skeletal structure. But a technical analysis isn't enough I guess. Since it is only me being rude and putting people down who have added nothing technical to the subject in this thread.

My technical analysis was called

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost

that was the biggest pile of crap ive ever read on this or any other forum.
i should barely dignify this with a response.

go an learn something about boxing before you post trash.
your other posts on this thread show how little you really know as everyone has already pointed out to you

By someone who has posted no technical knowledge on either subject we are talking about unless you count "NUH UH you're wrong." The fact that he doesn't use proper grammar and spelling or punctuation shows how much time and effort he places in his posts.

I stated my experience in what arts I know because that seems to have pull for some people on this forum but I guess I roll with the wrong clique there. I have been asked numerous time to verify what makes me qualified to discuss certain subjects on this forum but only I am being rude when I ask.

Jubaji won't quit his nonsense even when a Mod requests he do so. Tom I have no problem talking to you about this because you don't twist what I say to pretend I am trying to have some ego trip. I enjoy your questions and discussions because you follow things with an open mind and add to the discussions. You also take the technical knowledge you have and formulate reasonable questions and queries. I don't appreciate people who just say I am spouting shit and dissing other arts. Apparently if I say and explain the differences in CMA's from other arts than I am automatically discounting them and calling them crap.

Mike I understand that there are underhanded tricks in boxing but most people younger than 50 have no idea about these. I'd be more than happy to discuss this and what you feel is wrong with my explanation further with you but it seems even you can't control jubaji's rabid hatred for anything I have to say so why should I continue to put up with crap from someone who adds nothing to the discussion but his crappy opinion of me and my arts teachings.

And when a vid is posted that clearly illustrates the concept being asked about and a person says it's crap then wants to tell me I have no idea what the hell I am talking about it is clear it is a waste of time to discuss with them. If you don't have the manners to say "Hey man I don't get what that was about" and your reply to it is

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7r14ngL3Ch0k3

i get what you mean but no offense, those last 2 videos you posted looked even more weaksauce.

That means you don't want to learn you just want to be flippant. If a teacher showed a move or strike or form in class I doubt most people here would say

"Man that is absolute crap". While I am in no means calling myself a teacher I have to say if you don't have the presence of mind to at least ask and wait for the explanation before you call it crap why should I waste the time.

So far Mike and Tom and even Dick are the only people discussing and even though I am being accused of it everyone else is doing all the dissing.

Looks like we lose another chance at learning from each other Mike because I am fine knowing what I know. I have used it and it works but it seems the one liner guru of a higher power hasn't bestowed his blessings on my knowledge yet.

When have I ever stated mystical crap. I believe it was in Tom's thread not to long ago I posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

If you want to explore something deeper dig a hole and look in it. All TCMA's are is an efficent fighting system based on information gleaned from people who did nothing but fight and study fighting and body mechanics that is all.
All the mysticism is crap. People just don't want to admit that the system is based on such simple and evident mechanics that it can't help but work. The rest is just political and lineage crap that people add to protect their "rice bowls".
We see a lot of that here on these forums and we all see the shit pot it stirs up.

Modern marketing has misconstrued these two things into one in order to once again protect that "rice bowl" and sell charlatanisms to marks who will buy it. The Dillman's of the world ruin the fact that TCMA's are just a good SDF and fighting system they try to turn it into something greater than it is to appeal to the masses. People like that give real teachers a bad name and create trolls on forums like this who think that everything that has to do with TCMA's and everyone that has to do with them is full of crap. That is why some of the best sources and I say that in plural have been run off this forum.

I have been nothing but cordial to the people on this forum who have respected my attempt to be polite and come correct with my opinions as well as factual and verifiable info but I see how I am treated in return. Guess we'll try again another day.

And since I know I will be accused of running away because I have no idea what I am talking about I just said it for all you people who accuse and abuse but have yet to explain why you think I am wrong in technical terms.

Mr. Hardman you are excluded from that because you did break it down to the ground and I thank you for adding some technical knowledge. Have you by any chance studied with Mr. Brewer or one of his instructors?

KOTF

Gone. Say what you want now cause it don't matter to me.

jubaji · 09-26-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

That's about as realistic to Baji as the Tae Kwon Do tournaments are to real Tae Kwon Do.

Sorry what they were doing is crap. That is a sport version not a real MA version

So, when you post a video that is judged to be "weaksauce" that is an unforgivable affront, but look at your "flippant" dismissal of a video you, in all your wisdom, don't approve of. Kinda tryin' to have it both ways there, ain't ya, 'sifu'?

Even the other guy added "no offense" first. You didn't even go that far, oh great peacemaker and spreader of wisdom.

jubaji · 09-26-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Thats because you don't have any idea what you are looking at. Everything you have been taught is about generating power through sheer muscle in one area of your body and not by using the whole body to generate it.

Therefore arguing with you any more on this matter would be a waste of time till you understand the basic concepts of what makes CMA's work.

Here we can see that you were not dismissing the other poster out of hand because he had a different read on things than you. Oh no, you were obviously trying to engage him in 'productive' discussion.

jubaji · 09-26-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Some of these comments may not be directed at anyone in particular so unbunch all your panties now.

If anyone wants to argue this again don't count on a response from me because I only argue in the realm of reality.

Here we see the peacemaker's response to Tom's comments, very similar to MB's, about the FACT that boxers also use the whole body to generate punching power. Yes, very open-minded and productive. Good thing he "respects" Tom so much.

jubaji · 09-26-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Not to be rude but it seems that what I say about CMA's gets blown off a lot on this forum by people who have squat for experience while I have worked 2 jobs and practiced CMA's everyday for 7 years.

Now, if you look real hard and turn your head just so, you might be able to see a bit of "STFU and listen to me you ignorant turds!" in that statement...

jubaji · 09-26-2007, 05:55 PM

Now, in posts #27 and 31 I offered some practical advice to the original poster based on my experience of actually having lived, worked, and trained in China for quite some time, something the sensitive fellow demanding his word be taken as law (and his guru) cannot claim.

Notice the lack of crying and demanding that followed KOTF's dismissal from on high...

knifethrower · 09-26-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jubaji

I'm not sniping....

Yes you are

.

jubaji · 09-26-2007, 06:05 PM

His own words and his own attitude. I didn't make them up, no matter how much you want to defend him.

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09-25-2007, 09:41 PM	#46 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,304 Groans: 0 Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts	I've stuided Chinese-influenced systems but not gong fu; those where one of the founders was either Chinese, then went on to another country in the 20th century or came from a Buddhist temple. Therefore, I'm not even qualified to talk about the TCMAs, which I admit I am an outsider. The only appreciation I have is from what I see and from what has been demonstrated on me from talking to/hanging out with TCMA practitioners. I'm not here to defend any particular system, because I have an appreciation for martial arts, period. Whether that system is qin-na or capeira and can use its training realistically, I am interested. __________________ Love it, leave it or fix it.

09-25-2007, 11:48 PM	#48 (permalink)
knifethrower Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: I'm Texan, but I live in lots of places Posts: 527 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Oh man…the little masks we wear Dude…............... . __________________ "Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."

09-26-2007, 01:21 PM	#51 (permalink)
jubaji Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: koko Posts: 8,789 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	Not fer nothin' but Tom said much the same things at the beginning of this thread and was met with "its a waste of time to talk to you," "you don't understand," and "I've spent X years doing X so I know and you don't" or, if you read the whole thread you will see, words very much to that effect. This attitude, coupled with "Why, oh why, don't TCMA get the respect I think they deserve?" and you have a 'discussion' that amounts to "agree with me or STFU." Its like he's channeling Boar in that respect. I'd like to see more discussions about TCMA too, but not ones that are predicated on silly notions and/or exclusivity. No matter how many times you tell him that boxers (and anyone else who wants to punch with power) do in fact generate power using the legs, center, etc. he will not believe you, and will in fact dismiss you as not "getting it." Mark my words, if allowed to go unchallenged, the suggestion that fajing is a superpower will creep in here sooner or later. I'm not sniping, I'm not putting down TCMA or any other MA. I'd just like to see a rational approach to the subject and a little less crying anytime a self-professed 'unimpeachable' expert feels disrespected because anyone refuses to swallow anything he says whole and unexamined. That's all. Those who wish to cry troll may do so all they want, but if TCMA can't be discussed as directly and rationally as boxing or anything else, sooner or later you're gonna be up to your ears in Chi-balls and Kamehamehas. __________________ Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts.

09-26-2007, 02:23 PM	#52 (permalink)
jubaji Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: koko Posts: 8,789 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	Is saying "talking to you is a waste of time" personal or not? __________________ Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts.

09-26-2007, 05:55 PM	#58 (permalink)
jubaji Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: koko Posts: 8,789 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	Now, in posts #27 and 31 I offered some practical advice to the original poster based on my experience of actually having lived, worked, and trained in China for quite some time, something the sensitive fellow demanding his word be taken as law (and his guru) cannot claim. Notice the lack of crying and demanding that followed KOTF's dismissal from on high... __________________ Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts.

09-26-2007, 06:05 PM	#60 (permalink)
jubaji Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: koko Posts: 8,789 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	His own words and his own attitude. I didn't make them up, no matter how much you want to defend him. __________________ Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts.

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