Eagleye

Mike Brewer

What was the point of that video? He showed a bunch of things that had nothing whatever to do with fighting a grappler (they were how to fight if you are a grappler), and they were incorrect in many cases. Not even a BJJ whitebelt or a novice judo player would do some of the things he did. I guess I'm missing the point...

knifethrower

cool...

Got a few vids on what a BJJ or judo player would do?...

From a distance, dude. We’re talking entry…

__________________
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."

Mike Brewer

Oh, I'm sure you could watch any number of videos and see that a grappler wouldn't enter with his legs spread out like Earle's. Just check You Tube, and you'll see lots and lots of examples of what's often called a "penetration step." Wrestling-based arts don't often like to bend at the waist and go straight in the way he did. More often than not, they will come in either on an angle or they will penetrate with a deep step through your base when they grab you for a takedown. In many cases, they train to do this when they've got you turning (because of the angle, you turn to keep them in front of you), backing up, or coming forward. Nothing happens in a void, right? And almost no fight happens standing still. It's precisely the footwork of the grappler that keeps his safe from things like knees on the way in. If you're turning, backing up, or moving forward, it's incredibly hard to time a perfect knee strike on someone with a good penetration step. You get one shot, and it has to be perfect. How often is a reactive shot "perfect" in a fight?

My point is that he looked like a guy who has seen a lot of grappling, but not made a habit of training it. So he knows a lot about what it looks like from his art's point of view, but maybe not necessarily how it really works.

Kind of like when people who don't train at CMAs try and talk about how they work, it comes acropss as a sales pitch more than an effective system. Besides, the video is called How to Fight a Grappler. He didn't show how to fight a grappler at all. He showed how to be a grappler. I was just wondering what the point was.

Mike Brewer

YouTube - Killer Takedowns-Erik Paulson

Here's an example. Look at how Erik tries to time his takedowns for the moment when the opponent's feet are busy moving. That keeps him safe from any attack coming from the low line. Also note how he uses his head, shoulders, and even arms to affect the throw or takedown. Note the angle. He almost never does these from in front - even his single and double-legs. Look at his lead leg. It's always either penetrating between the opponent's feet, or it's positioned so that his leg confines the opponent's tightly so he can't throw knees or kicks.

I'll look for some more, but that's a start.

Mike Brewer

One more. Not as fun to watch, but look at the guy's position, how he either wraps his leg behind or pushes it between his opponent's legs. Look at where he grabs. Nothing like Earle's video.

YouTube - UFC Submission Wrestling Takedowns

knifethrower

Could you sprawl against this stuff?

__________________
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."

darrianation

Would it be fare to say that some grappling training would be an important ingredient to defeating a grappler? Not only do I think it is important but almost necessary or at at least benificial.

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In hills, as well as in villages and cities, hazards and predators find those who walk backwards.- Ezekiel Sanchez

Mike Brewer

The sprawl is no answer for everything, but sure, it would work in some instances. There are other answers that are equally valid, too.

knifethrower

That’s what his vid is about (not the clip but, the vid). He talks about how a grappler will cross the gap and how Tai Chi deals with it.

Really wish Eagleye would say why he posted this. You got a question about it or something to say?

Anyway…its s good vid and worth the cash. You won’t learn how to grapple from it but, you will understand how a Tai Chi dude will defend the gap.

__________________
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."

Eagleye

i realized this was only a fraction of the whole video.

i posted this to see what everyone thought about it.

i personally thought it was just stating the obvious, but thought it was interesting because it was in made in 1994 and it showed how much martial arts have come since then.

Eagleye

what "stuff"?

Eagleye

that guys technique and distance is still a bit off.

also, the black guy is not putting forth any resistance. i understand theyre just drilling takedowns to get their technique right but more resistance is better for actually finishing it.

Eagleye

in a real fight a takedown is set up with strikes usually. mixed martial arts fighters do a great job of this cause theyre aware of all the different strikes that can be thrown on the way in which would knock them out.

Mike Brewer

Knifethrower,
That's a better explanation, thanks. I wasn't trying to be an ass - I just didn't really get the point of the clip. He was talking about what "grapplers do," but he was showing things that not many grapplers do. He talked about the defenses he was going to show being unknown to most, except those who understand the advanced "secrets" of their arts, but he showed it against the most rudimentary and - like it or not, flawed - examples of basic grappling. The question that kept going through my mind was:

"If this kind of grappling can beat most people, aside from those who know the advanced secrets of an art, why not just learn how to grapple?"

I mean, if the basics of one are better than all but the most advanced of another, aren't we looking at an "economy of effort" kind of decision?

I'd like to see the whole video, especially with your explanation of it. It would really be interesting to see him work that stuff against some good grapplers determined to get a takedown, and to see what else he trains for defending a pretty crucial range transition.