freefighter2010

First of all i am delighted to join this amazing forum where people from different backgrounds and share thier experiences and become better people as a result.

I have read several threads on Wing chun and i am sorry to say that I studied wing chun for a year.I was told about wing chun by a former ji-jutsu guy who claimed that he had a fight with his wing chun instructor and his instructor beat him in a fight he was so impressed that he decided to do WC.

The JJ guy got me to enrol in WC classes at the time i was impressed by all the moves bongsa, pakso and it was like a new world to me. Until the day i ended in a fight and had the crap beaten into me by some drunken.

I have since left WC and moved onto study other systems. I am sorry but wing chun is developed for small chinese people who fought 1000s of years ago and not for the 21st century. So please be aware of why u are studing for a particular system. My instructor made me spend hours standing in one position just to do chain punching this was useless to me in a real fight as the stances was not stable.

Do disrespect to WC instructors..

Red Rum

Could I ask who your instructor was?

I have seen this in many schools and wing chun as a stand alone system is not good enough

There are situations that arise where your wing chun will be the best thing to use and other times where it won't be. If you train boxing all your life and are suddenly faced witha larger or quicker opponent, you might do okay but chances are you won't

Too many chunners believe that one art alone will save them. It won't. Neither will BJJ on its own or boxing or any other style. It is important to at least understand different methods of fighting

Wing chun schools do differ greatly (ie I get tired of people putting wing chun into one box). Kamon is an aggressive full contact federation designed to train fighting. There are a couple of other schools that train like this but a lot of them focus too much on forms or drilling in chain punches

If you look at people like Alan Orr, Kevin Chan, James Sinclair etc, they show very clearly that wing chun is an extremely useful system to have under your belt....

freefighter2010

Red Rum,

If what you say is true that forgive me for critising wing chun. I do not like to give names out on this forum of instructors as it might create bad blood in the community.

You make some great points noone one system is effective.

Red Rum

Don't worry about it - the point of forums is to discuss how instructors train, different systems etc. By naming the instructor, you would allow students of theirs to comment

If I came on here and said BJJ was rubbish and didn't name my instructor/school, I am sure I would be flamed in about ten seconds...

I have seen very bad karate and very good karate, I have seen very bad grappling and very good grappling. Wing chun is no different, although I would say and agree with Mike Brewer that it is often hard to find a combative form of wing chun.

g-bells

some of the principals behind WC can be applied into any art and be effective for real combat. just my oppinion though

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tsefreeflow

WC did not let you down, you let yourself down! Remember what makes the system work is you, the system is only the tool or the program to get it done. Its like iceskating, and if you fall on the ice and bust your ass you blame the skates for making you fall.

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jubaji

I'm not a big fan of WC, but "it" let you down is just stupid. How 'bout YOU got YOUR ass kicked because YOU suck?

Did you rub your magic WC medallion and say "Wing Chun Go!" three times expecting the spirit of Yip Man to come fight for you? What a load.

Studying something else may be a good idea, but if you are searching for some "it" to "work" for you, you are in for a lot of disappointment and many more ass kickings, which may be just what you deserve at this point.

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kanik

Haha! Damn straight! I couldnt agree more!

Now for my two cents... it doesnt matter how you train at class, when i was learning karate we friggen stood in a line in Heiko datchi drilling techniques over and over... if we were lucky we'd do combos... if we were REALLY lucky, we'd spar. yes, it sucked, yes it was boring, yes it is unpractical for a real fight situation... No I dont think it was pointless. You get the technique down and YOUR expected to be able to add 1+1 and go train the techniques ou've learnt in a practical way, I learnt karate like this for like a year or two... and I could use it rather well unlike my friend. Because I realised that in a fight you cant stand in a basic stance and drill techniques, your supposed to FIGHT forget the training and if you've trained well enough it will shine through, but if you start thinking "Omg! I cant punch this guy coz my art only made me drill things" then your an idiot. be creative... and yes, like others have said, and many others probably where thinking, it aint wing chun that let you down, its you. I know many wing chun practitioners who could literally leave youlying in a crumpled heap of pain before you could even THINK of thinking of punching them.

WildWest.

The problem here is that it takes too long for the penny to drop for most people and they spend years doing drills and never learn how to apply them into reality. A good instructor will teach those skills with the drilling, most don't though and just happily take your money.

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"Too much weights, not enough speed work"

Thai Bri

Some of the same old logic twisting favourite phrases still doing the rounds I see.

WildWest.

I knew you wouldn't be far away Bri!

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"Too much weights, not enough speed work"

Mike Brewer

Yes, he got his own ass kicked, but a part of that could very well be the training methods practiced at his gym. You can't tell me you put no responsibility on the trainers and the methods. If you really believed that, then you'd stick up for all the nonsensical chi gung training and just blame the person when he couldn't direct his chi to his chin and stop that knockout blow.

I still say if the method is not living up to what you expect - even if that means they aren't testing the material in class enough to give you confidence that it works - bail. Go someplace that does what you're after.

jubaji

Oh, some training can suck for sure, but anytime someone says "it worked" or "it didn't work" they are missing the f-ing point anyway.

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freefighter2010

I realize some people have been offended by my post..

jubaji you seem very angry with my post I had no intention of causing any emotional stress on your part. I accept responsibility for my actions.

Mike Brewer

Jub,
I'm the last one to disagree that style ever means more than the person executing it, so on that part, we completely agree. However, to a certain extent there's somethingto be said for learning something that's not geared for fighting and then trying to apply it that way. Imagine someone who was not well-educated in martial arts being told by some ignoramus that Tai Chi was the most effective fighting method on the planet. Imagine this burnout ignoramus talking about how even the name means "Grand Ultimate" and how, through Tai Chi, you can learn to defeat anyone regardless of size, strength, etc. The newbie takes his advice, not knowing any better. How's that guy going to do if he's attacked six months into his "training?" He's going to get his ass handed to him.

My point is simply this: If the person is already a tough, capable fighter, then style is of little consequence. If the training method is combative and realistic, then style is of little consequence. But if the person is untrained AND the style is not realistic or combatively trained, then not only did the person fail to adequately defend himself, so did "it." A person who isn't already a fighter will benefit far more from a hard, realistic, combative training program than from a fluffy, unrealistic, stylized training method, and it sounds like that's what happened here.

In other words, it sounds like there's two lessons to be learned. One (and most important), you are the one in the fight, not the style. That means it's up to you to find, develop, and execute the things that will allow you to win, regardless of styles, circumstances, and preferences. Two, if you're training to be a good fighter, then you need a trainer that can work towards that goal. Joining a school that's more interested in making sure you know the correct pinky placement of the left hand during the fook sao in Sil Lum Tao is not going to move you closer to your goal of being an effective fighter the way joining a good boxing gym or even a wing chun school geared specfically toward self-defense might. It takes both. Personal performance (and a clarity of purpose), and the right training method to support it.