Paul-M

I've been practising Shaolin Kung Fu for about 10 months and aim to keep going with it, but there's a lot of Wing Chun academies near me and I just wondered, can anyone outline some of the most obvious differences for me? Or are they quite similar?

IPON

There are many styles that comprise Shaolin MA, wing chun is just one style. It would be difficult to answer your question unless I know the specific styles. In general, most shaolin fighting styles are internal with long stances and generally will take about 8-10 year to be truely proficient. Wing chun is a close range fighting style which can be mastered in far les time. I know these are not that detailed but maybe others will fill in the gaps.

If the question is what is better or more practicle it will depend on what you want out of training (i.e to learn a traditional style, just to fight, sport, etc).

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A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

Paul-M

Thanks that's very helpful, I just wanted to know whether it was worth doing both but I'll probably do something else, Muay Thai or MMA maybe. Thanks for your help.

bodhisattva

Why not, instead, train a martial art that will make you very proficient within a year? Why train one that promises proficiency in ten years and even that is in question - as they never really prove their proficiency in contest, or competition? Why train an art like that? It promises "spiritual growth" but if it is a martial art that doesn't even teach you to fight well until you have studied for a decade, perhaps it doesn't have much to offer in the area of spiritual growth, either?

Just some thoughts.

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Paul-M

True, didn't really answer my question but I see where you're coming from. That's actually part of the reason I wanna do MMA, after 10 months of shaolin I can kick and punch better,but when it comes to avoiding and reacting I'm still not too good, we only spar in about 1 in 4 sessions and even then never for very long.

Mike Brewer

Paul,
What are you looking to gain from your training? I mean, on the front end, you asked about the differences between two very distinct and traditional Chinese martial arts. Then you made a comment about switching away from CMAs altogether and doing something like MMA or Muay Thai. Are you looking for a new art, or are you looking for something else? I guess if we can be more clear about whether you're training to be able to fight or training for some other purpose, it would be easier to provide meaningful input.

Paul-M

I just feel that Kung Fu is too traditional and has a lot of forms, however it is great for fitness and I really enjoy it, so I plan on doing something more fighting-oriented but keeping up the Kung Fu aswell, I was simply asking the differences between Shaolin and WC for my own interest and knowledge, IPON answered that for me and then bodhisattva mentioned the whole length of time to become proficient thing and that's when I mentioned the possibility of MMA. Both were helpful, thanks.

Mike Brewer

Well, MMA is going to be great for fitness too. I think you'll find that if forms and tradition turn you off, it won't be long before you scrap the CMAs altogether and just stick with modern sport combatives like MMA and Muay Thai. They'll get you every bit as fit, and it sounds like that's a lot closer to what you're after anyway.

Red Rum

Again, Bod, you are generalizing wing chun and shaolin arts under one flag.
I could show you some very poor grappling schools that have no clue about streetfighting and state that all grappling is rubbish.
But as most SENSIBLE people know, you can't judge an art by 1 club!
I have been to numerous wing chun schools and yeah there have been a few that fought by slapping hands away etc
Yet there are a few good schools around that emphasise techniques that work and make students aware that horse stances are not fighting stances but training stances, designed to help build up leg power

bodhisattva

If horse stances aren't fighting stances, I'm going to spend exactly zero minutes in one.

There are so many better ways to build up leg power that I won't even bother writing them all - cause most all of them are better than standing in some horse stance, throwing punches form the hip and shouting a Kiai on every punch. but if you want real leg power, I'd suggest you work some Squats and some Deadlifts - after first having a qualified individual teach you to do them correctly.

I'm not judging an art by 1 club. As most SENSIBLE people know, you shouldn't assume things about people you don't know - as you are doing with me. I gave more time (and lost $$$ to a fraudulent "self defense" system) than I care to mention to various traditional martial arts schools. They are crap. I am sorry if that upsets people, but I am only speaking the truth. If you enjoy doing kata and eagle claws and dragon beaks and crane weiner strikes, then COOL.

Just don't tell people it's "self defense" or "martial art" because it is neither, and you'll be a lying, stealing fraud. And you'll get people hurt.

I have never seen a grappling school that sucked - truly. I'm sure one exists, but really, grappling is of a nature that you are working against LIVE OPPONENTS every day you train. And people simply don't suck when they train against LIVE OPPONENTS that totaly resist them, every day they train.

That is the nature of live training - training in alive environments.

I would put any Freshman wrestler, even the 110 pounder, up against any 150 pound "shaolin guy." any day.

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Mike Brewer

No, you aren't. This is called "voicing opinions," not speaking the truth. Big, huge difference.

npk9

If I may ask what Shaolin style do you do? Also what kind of school? Is there a school website? There's nothing wrong with going Traditional but you really have to ask yourself. What do you want?

I've done started out in traditional Shaolin back in 1992. Starting with Southern, then I started doing alittle bit of Northern a couple years after that. I did a lot of forms competition at the national level (USWKF, USCKF). I then did San Shou/San Da at the end of my form competition career (if you could call it that). I have been fighting competitively for 3 years (as much as I can) my rec is 4-1 @ 155lbs this is fighting with the (USKBA San Da rules).

The reason why I'm asking and the reason why I'm giving you my background is that I've been there and done it with CMA. Which is why I ask - what do you want out of it?

I don't think "110lbs Freshman Wrestler up against any 150lbs shaolin guy" is really good statement to make but I understand where he's coming from. A lot of CMA people aren't good combat sports fighters - pointsparers at best. If any school states that their system is an awesome "self-defense" style and doesn't really do "MMA" or "full contact" fighting - I would avoid. Self-defense and combat sports are different but the training methodolgies do overlap.

To put in my opinion - I really do not like Wing Chun - as a style. I do not like there stances. There system answers low kicks with a stomp kick (WTF!?). I have no idea if they even have takedowns or takedown defences. I don't think there 3 forms address that either. But not to totally bash there system - I like how they are always address to protect the center line, there trapping is neat but that's all it is - neat.

But from an overview from a school to school stand point - most WC school are very cultish and ethnocentric in there class. A lot of Shaolin schools and TCMA fall into that category as well but there are few good ones that try to overcome that "Grandmaster" status.

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Mike Brewer

This alone makes you far better qualified to answer than me, Bodhi, or anyone else that's chiming in right now. Thanks for the input, and please stay active on threads like this one. People will really benefit from your advice.

Paul-M

I do Shaolin Nam Pai Chuan, which is a combination of North and South, the website is www.cardiffcentralkungfu.org.uk. I started out just wanting to do martial arts, not knowing much about them and Kung Fu looked and sounded really cool. I really loved the sparring straight away which is why I wanna take up a more fighting oriented art like MMA or Muay Thai, but at the same time I wanna keep up the Shaolin because I enjoy forms. A lot of people say forms are not helpful for combat and I understand that but I still think they are good to practice, I love that moment when you have been trying to learn a form and it suddenly clicks, and flowing through one you have been training for a while is really relaxing.

I guess I'm weird with what I want, wanting to fight and spar but also wanting to learn forms, most people choose either direction and stick with it.

Mike Brewer

Personally, I think it shows that you're well-rounded. I think the inclusion of forms will, if nothing else, make you able to practice for much longer than purely athletic or purely combative arts might. When you get older and your body wears down (and that happens even faster if you're a fight sports athlete, make no mistake), you'll still have those forms to train, to relax with, and to keep your body supple. Try and imagine learning those forms as a worn-out 50 year old ex-fighter with arthritic knees and bad shoulders. Better to have them now, maybe?

As for what you like, none of it's weird. It's a matter of taste, personal preference, and what you find a passion for. There's diversity in martial arts and training methods for a reason, and a big part of that reason is that different people like different things. Different folks find success in different ways. I can't see a thing wrong with wanting to do both, and I don't think it's contradictory in the least.

Just be aware that when you start training MMA, people like Bodhi are going to talk no end of smack and make you feel like a doofus for your other training. Try and ignore that kind of thing. Train the stuff you love and never mind the rest.