Thread: Kung Fu and MMA

Appropriate tool for the situation at hand.

If you have a drunk/out of control friend, you might want to tie him up with something like the clinch, followed by a duck under etc. Ground game would be good.

If you are in unknown territory and fighting to survive, go for the spear fingers, gouges, kinna mutai Phillipino fighting, qinna etc pull out your own blade and save your ass.

Tom,

Yes, thank you for clarifying. Obviously we are not going to attack vital points and soft tissue in every case good point. I guess I am speaking of a Kung Fu fighter being attacked by a experienced grappler.

And going with what Ghost has written, these techniques need to be practiced in a live environment to make them work. Whether you are focusing on gauging, ripping, bitting, stomps etc - need to be done against resisting opponents in as spontaneous environment as can be done - without maiming your training partner - hence the reason and need for sport-like training methods.

Tigerclaw, there are full padded suits, with thick masks and groin protection that martial art schools can purchase that allow practitioners interested in Self-defense to do full contact head butting, eye gouges, knife-hand style strikes to vital parts, groin strikes/control, stomps.

The difference between any TMAist that makes his style work and any MMAist is that the MMAist can learn simple techniques delivered from simple/direct footwork and put them to use right away in the environment they are intended for.

The TMAist has to take alot longer time to adjust to a completely new way of moving that seems foreign to them; he or she may not be used to and "figure out" how to make their body work for them while changing stances. Once they have this completely new style of moving, and striking, they then have to find a way to practice this (which is not readily available unless they buy said equipment). The outcome is the same - an individual who understands how to use their footwork, changes in center of gravity, how to use their hips, legs, evasive head movement to kick, strike, infight, grapple.

MMA quickly mass produces hardened, tough ring fighters with some techniques they can use for self-defense.

TMA (assuming quality instruction and indiv. experience) produces more well-rounded individuals, who might do so-so in sparring/grappling but whom have more tools at their disposal outside of the ring - that their opponents may not expect or have seen.

That's why sometimes you see a Tae kwon do guy find an opening, throw a high, hard, fast hook kick and knock out some dude who was expecting a slug fest or a shaolin stylist jam his fingers on a nerve bundle on the base of the neck (looking like he's just touching him) and put the guy off balance.

Good posts from Ghost.

I remember the Kung Fu guys of the 1970s who went to Thailand to fight,they all got kod in rnd 1 or 2,they complained that it was because they had to wear gloves so couldnt do the finger gouges tiger claws etc,so the Thais said ok come back and fight gloveless(Thai boxers still wore gloves) guess what..The Kung Fu fighters all got knocked out the same way.

Does this make Kung Fu a bad Martial art? not at all,its just that the Thai fighters could clinch/kick and box effectively,the Kung Fu guys couldnt.

In the old styles of Muay Thai biting/butting etc were legal techniques(anything goes) imagine how effective those guys were!.

If you look at the chinese arts carefully,the potential for them to produce real effective fighters from most systems is massive,loads of real good technique,but the fact is they dont fight in most systems usually,and the training methods of the techniques leave a lot to be desired.

San Shou boxers are exceptions of course,however they have also integrated Thai Methods into there training.

The thing I get annoyed with is kung fu fighters always cling to the same old line about not being able to attack the soft tissue and the eyes, throat, groin, nerves other muscle attacks and joint attacks, pressure points, fish hooking the eyes and lips, I honestly dont get how attacking these points changes anything there is no secret technique to attacking them you dont need years of training to learn how to attack the points anyone can do it, Im not saying Kung fu is useless Im just saying I dont see how it has an edge over any other martial art just because they can attack some guys balls.

YouTube - Kung Fu & MMA

Originally Posted by Ghost

Yeah i think these are good points, especially how they train, i think they would end up ditching half the crap and perfecting all the good stuff in ways that isnt being done now due to lack of pressure.

Would be great to see kung fu evolve through pressure testing and see a really effective system based on all their techniques.

Might be something to do there fire cobra? a project for the future. learn kungfu then pressure test it and develop it.

I kinda did that when i was younger Ghost,

Its actually how i started Muay Thai,i was into Wing chun and went round the boxing gyms testing my standard,got my ears rang a few times but sharp learned what to do and gave the boxers some problems in that they couldnt understand what i was doing with the trapping.

Later i needed a new challenge so went to the Thai Boxing gym(which i had to travel 2 hours to get to) and tried to do the same,this time i was getting neck kicked and kneed quite a bit! any way i fell in love with Muay Thai,the smell of the oil,the colours in the gym,the music and the technique,that was it!.

Kept up my Wng Chun training but gradually did more and more Muay Thai.

I also did a couple of years Choy Lee Fut,now there is a style with lots of potential to have great fighters.

Sorry this sounds like my life story! just wanted you to know i did pressure test myself and skills in those days,now? oh man im toooo old! it hurts!.

To all, I will be back later, and I hope to get into it with some here.

By the way I am not talking about standing up fighting, I know that many Kung Fu masters could easily handle themselves that way. I am talking about ground fighting and grappling situations.

Also I am refering to the best in Kung Fu, not a junior who gave up on his form fighting and became a kick boxer. These men or women to me are not even kung fu fighters even if they studied a year or two in kung fu. To fight as a Kung Fu fighter you need to fight in form,

And for the slanderous, gossip and lies that jubjai has been spreading, that is not true. I was never chased off in shame. I spoke the truth as in here. Just read my quotes at the beginning from the experts and I suggest you not slander or attack with hideous lies any more. But since you have done this the scond time, speak on that all may know your lack of knowledge in this area.