The Ultimate in Martial Arts

krys · 12-18-2003, 12:17 PM

One ethnologist I know thinks that filipinos and polynesians come from the same group of sea dwelling peoples... are there similarities in the martial arts of both groups?

sikal · 12-18-2003, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haumana2000

Yeah, me being from Hawai'i I know first hand that some of my friends dads there have cock farms, though they are Kapu,( off limits) to all but a select few of course. There is a book called Iron Butterfly, that details an escrimadors ship travels and his encounters with the native martial arts of Hawaii, and how they exchanged information.

Very good book, by the way

Mike

haumana2000 · 12-18-2003, 12:23 PM

I have practiced and continue to practice both. Yes there are similarities. I have touched on this before, there are similarities in both groups of peoples, with several migration theories though it largely depends upon who you ask. the biggest difference is the lack of metalworking in the polynesian islands most are either coral or volcanic. which of course creates a big difference. traditional Mea Kaua or weaponry was crafted from hardwoods. shark teeth, and stone, which puts an emphasis on striking, or thrusting vs, slashing, although with a good leiomano (shark) blade this was highly possible. also different is the lack of bow and arrow (pana in the PI.) in polynesia, they had them but for some reason used them for sport rather than war.

haumana2000 · 12-18-2003, 12:26 PM

GREAT BOOK SIKAL! one of my favorites!

krys · 12-18-2003, 12:35 PM

I think metalic weapons were rare in some areas of the Philippines before the spanish invasion... I read somewhere about a chinese text concerning raids by a filipino tribe on mainland China (12th century?)... These peoples had spears with metal blades fixed to them, the spears were attached to thin ropes in order to retrieve them as metal was very precious, I will look for it...

haumana2000 · 12-18-2003, 01:12 PM

This was a common trait of Polynesian spears as well, there were two types ihe short thrusting spears about 6ft, and pololu long ones usually double that length. ihe were almost always barbed and did contain the retention cord that you spoke of called Ka'ane. Though they did not have metal, if the spear broke, he still could retain the other end as a club (newa) or use the cord as well, because lua depts, were skilled in using flexible weapons. As far as the fighting arts, go, The Lua is generally more fitted to the larger body types of the Polynesians than the smaller Filipinos, simply due to the strength involved. The techniques are not brute strength by any means, as I have seen some pretty large Hawaiians perform the moves as fluid as the Hula, but in general the moves are more linear, and grappling oriented. Most people consider the hula as very feminine, but the traditional male hula (Kahiko Kane) is very strong, and there is a also remnants of the Lua perfomed in a dance from the island of Molokai, called Hula kui' na Molo'kai. Molo' kai' refers to the rolling motion of the waves, and kui' means to strike. Hawaii'ans did use sticks in much the same way as FMA, but generally preferred a longer staff (ko'ko'o')

krys · 12-19-2003, 05:49 AM

This is an interesting link to filipino weapons:
http://vikingsword.com/rila/krieger.html

silatpd · 03-21-2004, 03:22 PM

hey guys let me join the forum.

Perisai Diri fairly modern Silat System, very scientific. Pak Dirdjo combined all Silat systems, we are taught langkah, teknik Satria, teknik Harimau, teknik Minangkabau, teknik burung Kuntul, teknik burung Mliwis.

The lotus flower floats on the water surface, next to the gushing waterfall. The small boy looks with interest. The flow of the water draws the delicate flower to the whirlpool. Increasing speed the flower spins to the center and flows back outward, out of harms way. The flower continues this path of floating directly into danger then using its delicate structure redirects the powerful energy.

Crucible · 09-15-2004, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krys

[CODE] Do you by the way know the names of the filipino silat styles taught in the US?

I think there's only one person doing Philipine silat as we'd recognize it, here in the US. But I believe she's only doing it for performance and not teaching it to the public. I'll PM you a link. Most people doing Philipine silat here have actually never been to the P.I. or Mindanao and its usually Indonesian silat mixed in with escrima and some other things.

Crucible · 09-15-2004, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haumana2000

I learned the perforance aspect of the Langka Silat from Dolly Banzon of Mindanao who was a very well known cultural dancer there.

You wouldn't happen to know what muslim group or part of Mindanao she came from, would you?

Crucible · 09-15-2004, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haumana2000

There is a book called Iron Butterfly, that details an escrimadors ship travels and his encounters with the native martial arts of Hawaii, and how they exchanged information.

Haumana2000, where can I get this book? By the way, what does your name mean?

sikal · 09-15-2004, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crucible

I think there's only one person doing Philipine silat as we'd recognize it, here in the US. But I believe she's only doing it for performance and not teaching it to the public. I'll PM you a link. Most people doing Philipine silat here have actually never been to the P.I. or Mindanao and its usually Indonesian silat mixed in with escrima and some other things.

That's not quite true. The Filipino Silat that Guro Dan Inosanto, for instance, teaches comes predominately from John Lacoste who had traveled and trained in many parts of the PI. And I don't think he's the only one but others are eluding me right now. But there's definitely that source for Filipino Silat. Of course, Guro Dan has also trained in Indonesian and Malaysian Silat, too. But he is able to isolate the Filipino Silat when he wants to.

Mike

Crucible · 09-15-2004, 10:38 PM

Mike,
Please feel free to correct me and list anyone else that comes to mind. Guru Dan isn't someone I automaticly think of as doing Philipine silat. I'm aware of GM Lacoste's Mindanao connections and travels but he wasn't very forthcoming about who and where he learned from so its difficult to verify. I've seen silat and kuntao from pesilats from two diffrent tribes, and know of about 10 diffrent kinds of silat in the P.I. From what I've seen of footage of Jaunito Lacoste and Inosanto blend there's nothing I recognize in my experiance as coming from Mindanao or Sulu. Its possible he may of picked up paticular things or techniques but over all I wouldn't categorize it as silat as practiced in Mindanao, especially to krys who's studying a style that's been preserved for over ten generations.

Crucible · 09-15-2004, 10:45 PM

The person I was refering to is moro, of a royal line, and practicies forms preserved and passed down in her family as well as from other tribes.

haumana2000 · 09-16-2004, 11:19 AM

Brother Crucible..

glad to see ya on the forum!
The book Iron butterfly is an old one, but i dont remember who wrote it, do a google search for it. I lent it out and unfortunately did not get it back.

I am almost Certain that Dolly is from Davao' which is where my grandmothers family was from, though they most certainly were not muslims. (We like pork too much) anyway my name Haumana means Deciple as perpetuated in traditional Hawaiian arts such as Lua, hula, carving etc...

12-18-2003, 12:17 PM	#16 (permalink)
krys Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: francephilippines Posts: 672 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	One ethnologist I know thinks that filipinos and polynesians come from the same group of sea dwelling peoples... are there similarities in the martial arts of both groups? __________________ Krys MINDANAW SILAT ASLI

12-18-2003, 12:23 PM	#18 (permalink)
haumana2000 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 308 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have practiced and continue to practice both. Yes there are similarities. I have touched on this before, there are similarities in both groups of peoples, with several migration theories though it largely depends upon who you ask. the biggest difference is the lack of metalworking in the polynesian islands most are either coral or volcanic. which of course creates a big difference. traditional Mea Kaua or weaponry was crafted from hardwoods. shark teeth, and stone, which puts an emphasis on striking, or thrusting vs, slashing, although with a good leiomano (shark) blade this was highly possible. also different is the lack of bow and arrow (pana in the PI.) in polynesia, they had them but for some reason used them for sport rather than war. __________________ Tenei te koorero mo te wa rapua i te mea ngaro "search for what is missing, hidden, stolen"

12-18-2003, 12:26 PM	#19 (permalink)
haumana2000 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 308 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	GREAT BOOK SIKAL! one of my favorites! __________________ Tenei te koorero mo te wa rapua i te mea ngaro "search for what is missing, hidden, stolen"

12-18-2003, 12:35 PM	#20 (permalink)
krys Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: francephilippines Posts: 672 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think metalic weapons were rare in some areas of the Philippines before the spanish invasion... I read somewhere about a chinese text concerning raids by a filipino tribe on mainland China (12th century?)... These peoples had spears with metal blades fixed to them, the spears were attached to thin ropes in order to retrieve them as metal was very precious, I will look for it... __________________ Krys MINDANAW SILAT ASLI

12-18-2003, 01:12 PM	#21 (permalink)
haumana2000 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 308 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	This was a common trait of Polynesian spears as well, there were two types ihe short thrusting spears about 6ft, and pololu long ones usually double that length. ihe were almost always barbed and did contain the retention cord that you spoke of called Ka'ane. Though they did not have metal, if the spear broke, he still could retain the other end as a club (newa) or use the cord as well, because lua depts, were skilled in using flexible weapons. As far as the fighting arts, go, The Lua is generally more fitted to the larger body types of the Polynesians than the smaller Filipinos, simply due to the strength involved. The techniques are not brute strength by any means, as I have seen some pretty large Hawaiians perform the moves as fluid as the Hula, but in general the moves are more linear, and grappling oriented. Most people consider the hula as very feminine, but the traditional male hula (Kahiko Kane) is very strong, and there is a also remnants of the Lua perfomed in a dance from the island of Molokai, called Hula kui' na Molo'kai. Molo' kai' refers to the rolling motion of the waves, and kui' means to strike. Hawaii'ans did use sticks in much the same way as FMA, but generally preferred a longer staff (ko'ko'o') __________________ Tenei te koorero mo te wa rapua i te mea ngaro "search for what is missing, hidden, stolen"

12-19-2003, 05:49 AM	#22 (permalink)
krys Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: francephilippines Posts: 672 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	This is an interesting link to filipino weapons: http://vikingsword.com/rila/krieger.html __________________ Krys MINDANAW SILAT ASLI

03-21-2004, 03:22 PM	#23 (permalink)
silatpd Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 2 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	To be like the flower hey guys let me join the forum. Perisai Diri fairly modern Silat System, very scientific. Pak Dirdjo combined all Silat systems, we are taught langkah, teknik Satria, teknik Harimau, teknik Minangkabau, teknik burung Kuntul, teknik burung Mliwis. The lotus flower floats on the water surface, next to the gushing waterfall. The small boy looks with interest. The flow of the water draws the delicate flower to the whirlpool. Increasing speed the flower spins to the center and flows back outward, out of harms way. The flower continues this path of floating directly into danger then using its delicate structure redirects the powerful energy.

09-15-2004, 10:38 PM	#28 (permalink)
Crucible Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 147 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mike, Please feel free to correct me and list anyone else that comes to mind. Guru Dan isn't someone I automaticly think of as doing Philipine silat. I'm aware of GM Lacoste's Mindanao connections and travels but he wasn't very forthcoming about who and where he learned from so its difficult to verify. I've seen silat and kuntao from pesilats from two diffrent tribes, and know of about 10 diffrent kinds of silat in the P.I. From what I've seen of footage of Jaunito Lacoste and Inosanto blend there's nothing I recognize in my experiance as coming from Mindanao or Sulu. Its possible he may of picked up paticular things or techniques but over all I wouldn't categorize it as silat as practiced in Mindanao, especially to krys who's studying a style that's been preserved for over ten generations. Last edited by Crucible; 09-15-2004 at 10:47 PM. Reason: forgot a word

09-15-2004, 10:45 PM	#29 (permalink)
Crucible Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 147 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	The person I was refering to is moro, of a royal line, and practicies forms preserved and passed down in her family as well as from other tribes.

09-16-2004, 11:19 AM	#30 (permalink)
haumana2000 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 308 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Brother Crucible.. glad to see ya on the forum! The book Iron butterfly is an old one, but i dont remember who wrote it, do a google search for it. I lent it out and unfortunately did not get it back. I am almost Certain that Dolly is from Davao' which is where my grandmothers family was from, though they most certainly were not muslims. (We like pork too much) anyway my name Haumana means Deciple as perpetuated in traditional Hawaiian arts such as Lua, hula, carving etc... __________________ Tenei te koorero mo te wa rapua i te mea ngaro "search for what is missing, hidden, stolen"

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread: