cfr

Dont know how many of you are familiar with the "alive" concepts from:

www.straightblastgym.com

Whats your guys take on these concepts in regards to knife/ stick work? People in some empty hand styles dont beleive in kata due to it being prearrenged. What do you guys think of prearranged weapons techs? Against a static, non resisting opponent? Ive got a wee bit of an FMA background and feel like Im playing patty cake when Im doing heaven/ standard/ earth 6 all the time. Not to mention alot of the techs make me wonder if they could really be pulled off against someone that was trying to keep me from doing them successfully. If you come from the "learn to walk before you can run" school of thought, how long do you think it should be before you begin trying these techs against someone who is trying to work you back?

Airyu

Hello,

I have been training in the various FMA's for over 20 years now, and I can agree that many drilss, disarms etc, do not work very effectively in a real match against someone who is trying to hit you. That being said, drilling in various patterns to ingrain some movements and tactics can be used effectively in your training, as long as you temper this with actual SPARRING as well. Without it you very raley will be able to pull off what you have been taught.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net

cfr

So how long to you think it should take to start sparring in FMA?

doubleouch

You have to spar right away! It will probably be limited controlled sparring, but it is necessary to do it right away in order to build proper timing and distance from the start.

RAB

cfr,

You are right about being patty cake. I recently workout with an instructor from a specific organization who was caught up in drilling, no aliveness. I found it difficult to work with him because he had no intent on hitting me. That is bad training and its wrong. Regardless, of teachers intentations, whether it be safety or liablity, you can't teach FMA without liveness. What is important for you to know is the purpose of the drill if your school does this mass programing. If you understand the drill then you can use it as a learning tool.

As far as sparring that up to the person. Weapons aren't like boxing groves - one blow, one cut and it could be it. The core in FMA is liveness so whatever it takes to develop that is most important. Sparring is just a facet....like drills.

yenhoi

Sumbrada training has many things in common with the III training of the SBG. FMA do this with same weapons, mismatched weapons, and empty handed.

Heaven/standard/earth movements have direct application in empty hand environment. Get a partner and train those three-counts the III-SBG way (like Inward-backhand-backhand) and see what pops out in sparring.

Also invest time checking out the Crazy Monkey SBG material. You will find other elements of training and technique that are common to many arts including FMA.

__________________
strike!

darrianation

Try the dog brothers: http://www.dogbrothers.com/

__________________
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G. Gordon Liddy

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
– George Bernard Shaw

cfr

After watching the Dog Brothers video on the main page I have even less faith than I did before in alot of the patty cake stuff.

Airyu

Hello Everyone,

I would start sparring right from the begining of training. As an example, I had a women start in my class several months ago, she never had sparred with a stick in her life, the second class she started to spar with Actionflex sticks, and is now hooked on it!! You don't have to go "full on" on your first attempt, but each time you get out there, gradually increase the pace and intensity.

Safety gear:

With all sparring there should be some type of safety gear to help you progress without too much damage to your body. As a beginner look at Actionflex, for starting out, you can then move to pipe foam covered PVC, light rattan out to regular rattan training sticks. You can wear a variety of helmets, gloves or pads, but beware the tendency to pad up too much and then take blows to the body or head that might ingrain a false sense of security in your techniques!!

Train Hard it is the Way!

Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net

darrianation

Airyu, nice progression. I bet you guys have a blast.

__________________
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G. Gordon Liddy

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
– George Bernard Shaw

cfr

So do you guys think waiting a couple of years to start fma sparring can lead to bad habits or have any negative effect?

johnzag

hi guys at my FMA club down here in Australia we start sparring pretty much straight away (although we dont do an excessive amount to begin with). Sparring plays a big part in our gradings as we like to see that the students can actually apply the techniques they are learning.
We have started using some of those bendy foam sticks and then as the student progresses to the higher ranks they have to start using the rattan sticks. When we get to that stage we pad up properly (helps keep the injuries down). Although all the instructors are keen to instill a sense of realism into the students. Its no use seal clubing each other as that wouldn't happen in real life. One or two clean blows and it will be all over!

Airyu

Hello guys,

darrianation: Oh we have lots of fun!! Last night we did 45 minutes of sparring utilizing actionflex. Each student fought either me or a senior student at least two times. Each time, a student was pushed to improve their fighting tactics. Either through verbal instruction (protect your open side or head) or through application of a technique to the vulnerable area. Other times we spar it just might be open match to have all the students spar with a different opponents, or withering sparring-were one student fights many opponents in a row, and many other variations.

cfr- Why wait? Get in there and try out the skills you are learning with your training partners. It will improve your timing, distancing, application, mental attitude, endurance etc!!!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net

cfr

This isnt by choice. My school doesnt have people do any sparring, weapons or not, for 2 - 2 1/2 years. I just made it through year 1. Since then Ive taken time off for an injury and have been reading up on "alive" concepts. I was already seriously questioning my commitment to my school (as evident in some of my other posts) and now that Ive read up on this Im not too sure I'll be returning.

RAB

Before you consider leaving your current training program make sure you understand what people here are saying and what they are not saying. They are talking about sparring but does that mean they are avoiding blows, coming in and disarming while delivering blow all in the same movement?

You might not be able to spar at your school but what do the senior students look like when they spar? Training is a process.