Ninjoe

Mmkay so Rome had it's legionaires, Japan it's samurai, but what did the Philippines have ? I am filipino myself and do not know the answer. I've asked my mother and my freinds but none know. My mother actually says they had "jungle warriors" who lived up in the mountains and were primative. She even mentioned something about cannibals which i dont want to get into. If anyone knows please reply.

__________________
"A Ninja's vengence runs not only though his blood, but through his soul..." -Ryu Hayabusa

"I'm not a ninja! I'm a Ninjoe !" -Ninjoe

HtTKar

I dont know.
But Filipinos were never really united (I think). They seem to always have been fighting amongst themselves. This did make for some great martial arts, but I dont think the country was ever united enough to develope a legendary army. There are about 7,700 different islands, and all of them have their own "governments" or barangays (sp?), and each island has its own dialect. They were constantly beaten by all foreign invaders until they beat they Spanish Magellin fleet. One of my best friends grew up in the Phillipines, and was adopted when he was about 6. All he remembers was war and destruction, he had already been shot 3 times and had his finger cut off with a machete.

All of their warrior had to practice in secret (I think). My guess, the closest they have had were the Moros and the Igorot

__________________
"The harder you train, the harder it is to surrender"
(Vince Lombardi)

HtTKar

http://www.mubai.cc/articles.htm
http://www.mubai.cc/articles/art21.htm
http://www.aenet.org/igorot/bibak.htm
http://www.cwis.org/fwj/21/imnr.html
http://www.alibata.org/martialarts/martialarts.html

__________________
"The harder you train, the harder it is to surrender"
(Vince Lombardi)

Sun_Helmet

Maharlikas

The Filipino tribes worked through the system of the Maharlikas. The term “Maharlika” was derived from the Sanskrit word for “noble” spelled, “Maharddlika”.

Each Maharlika warrior was responsible for their OWN weapons and manufacture of personal defense under their Datus.

So too were the Timawas, freemen left to roam and defend their family, their survival dependant on their allegiances and what armaments they can accumulate.

--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali

Sun_Helmet

Hello Mike,

Here's some info on the Juramentado:

Juramentado - A suicide custom of the Moro directly traced to religious 'frenzy'. The Spanish used this term derived from the verb “jurar” or to take an oath. The oath is to kill the enemy by any means possible. It is assumed the Moro will be killed in his attempt to slaughter. Congressional medal award recipient and known Indian fighter, Cornelius Smith witnessed three accounts of juramentados in his six year tour of duty on the islands. Oddly enough, Smith commented that had the Moros who he considered courageous and dangerous fighters been left alone, they would have been no trouble. He blamed the Christianizing Spaniards for bequeathing a bloody legacy.

Juramentado Process

1. Consultation with Iman
2. Iman permits running amok
3. Forge a fine tempered barong or kris. “So fine as that the light touch could cut a horse”. Process takes a minimum of 12 hours
4. Shave the brow and forehead to appear pure
5. Bind different body parts with a cord in order to avoid hemorrhage. There's mention of the testes being bound as well. A juramentado must fall wounded and die without shedding much blood.
6. The more heads he cuts the better . Nothing must stop him except death.

Three types of Moro 'savage practices'
Juramentado - usually avenging himself.
Mundo - One who assaults or kills to rob others. Usually found in desolate areas and during 'hit and runs'.
Pulajones- An abuser and assassinator of victims. No ties to religious practice- pretty much a serial killer of the Moro kind.

Note: Cornelius C. Smith was credited for hunting down the seven murderers of 14th Cavalry trooper Fernando Keithley whose harrowing death by the Moros was detailed in Vic Hurley's classic “Swish of the Kris”.

Nothing much beyond the hemorraging stoppage and the fallen juramentado waiting for a white horse to take him to an afterlife has been written about the practices of the Juramentado.

A book titled The Muslim World was based on articles written in the mid 1920's contain pretty much the same info as above. However, in this book they state that in Jolo (1920's), the Juramentado had all but disappeared.
Other terms used in this book referring to the juramentado were the Sulu words, "parrang sabil or sabilullah".

--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali

Sun_Helmet

It depended on the tribe but generally, the Datu was replaceable. If he fell in battle, another warrior would take his place. When Sultan Kachil Kudarat stood before the Marinaw Datus, he humbled them for dealing with the Spanish: " Reflect on how even the minor promises to the chiefs of other nations were not honored until they (the Spanish) became masters of them all. See now what is being done to these chiefs and how they are being led by a rod."

Spanish were but one culture who invaded during the four hundred year span. We have Dutch, German, English, Chinese and other Malays; plus local tribe versus tribe battles happening throughout. So one Datu may battle another Datu's tribe, they never considered to unite until Kudarat organized them.

Kudarat would be equivalent to Sitting Bull of the Sioux, although he was not a shaman. So it would be close to the Native American tribes in that one Datu could be Gaul, another Red Cloud... etc. They were closer to that structure than the Mayan or Aztecs.

--Rafael--

GonzoStyles

I have always heard that the Juramentados running amok was the reason for the US army adopting .45 long colt as the standard pistol cartridge (I believe it was .38 speacil before), as whatever they were using at the time was not enough to stop the charging Moro warriors. Amazing that the languages of that area can be traced all the way back to Sanskrit one of the oldest known languages, and mother to many other in that part of the world.

Ninjoe

wow thanks for all the info, very interesting.

__________________
"A Ninja's vengence runs not only though his blood, but through his soul..." -Ryu Hayabusa

"I'm not a ninja! I'm a Ninjoe !" -Ninjoe

Garland

...I have On-Demand. My life is now officially OVER thanks to that fucking show, "ROME", and the conponent pieces on the History Channel.
I may as well be bedridden.

__________________
homo homini lupus

Sun_Helmet

This quote below was written by Cornelius C. Smith, Jr - Thirty year US Army veteran of the Indian wars (he fought Apache, Comanche, Lakota etc.) and the Moro campaigns.

Smith received a Congressional Medal of Honor for gallantry against the Sioux. For his gallantry he was sent to Mindanao to fight the Moros.

"In hand to hand combat our soldiers are simply no match for the Moro. If our first shot misses the target, we rarely have time to get off another."

and this quote:

“The Indian campaign were not analogous. The Indian Wars were amateur melees compared with the insurrection (by Filipinos in Southern Luzon) waged in 1900…” pg. 138 Millett, The General (Gen. Robert L. Bullard, who helped track the Apache warrior, Geronimo) (sidenote: Another officer who was credited in actually capturing Geronimo was also killed in the Philippines at that time, ironically by a Filipino named ...Geronimo)

Thus, the development of the Colt 45. The US ARMY had cadaver tests of firearm stopping power as field tested during the Philippine Campaigns. The results swayed the Army into abandoning the .38 caliber Colt and Smith/wesson revolvers for the .45

Accounts of fierce Moro determination by US soldiers and failed stopping power of the .38 led to the deployment of the "Philippine" often called the "Alaskan" in error. The "Philippine" was a Colt M1878/1902 D.A. Army revolver with a large trigger guard and longer trigger . The modification was for increased leverage to allow for a stiffer mainspring necessary to fire Frankford Arsenal ammunition.

On October 8th, 1903 General William Crozier addressed the automatic pistol issue. Supported by the above Thompson-Lagarde studies, by early 1906 and numerous modifications later, the new Colt .45 M1905 automatic was government issue.

*data from the book - The Colt Model 1905 Automatic Pistol, John Potocki

The root words of many Filipino terms depicting war are not Spanish at all, but rooted in Sanskrit. From the influence of the Sri Visayan / Filipino commerce that existed well before the arrival of Islam and Spain.

Here's a few Sanskrit words that influenced the ancient Filipinos:

Sanskrit: saüyatta > Malay/Indonesian:senjata > Pre-Hispanic Filipino: sandata
----
Sanskrit: bhaññàra > Malay/Indonesian: Berhala > Pre-Hispanic Filipino: Bathala
----
Sanskrit: kàlinga > Malay/Indonesian: Keling > Pre-Hispanic Filipino:Kalinga
----
Sanskrit:koña > Malay/Indonesian: Kota > Pre-Hispanic Filipino: kota or cotta



--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali

Sun_Helmet

For M. Brewer:

The Visayan's chiefdom governmental structure differed from the Moro or Muslim states model. And so on from tribe to tribe (Buntocs, Tagals, Ilongots, Ibilaos, Tandulanos, Negritoes...etc) with some basic similarities such as the warrior/chiefs. You can get good info from William Henry Scott's book: Barangay. I actually have several books concerning the social and political structures of various tribes, but basically tribal customs vary from one tribe to another. It is as diverse as one tribe blackening their teeth with betel nut and the tribe closest to them not partaking in betel nut at all. Other books (although rare) are Gems of the East, and Inhabitants of the Philippines.

--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali

Sun_Helmet

TRIBAL STRUCTURE

During LapuLapu's time:

VISAYAN:

Social Structure:

Kalibutan:
Pure bred royalty from all 'four corners' (grandparents)

Potli:
First degree royal lineage. Datu's son from chief wife (Asawa).

Tumao:
Second degree royal lineage. Datu's son from other wives (Sandil). Lesser nobility.

Timawa:
Non noble freemen who are citizens loyal to Datu.

Mati Timawa:
Freed slaves who loyal to Datu.

Oripun:
Slave

Bulan:
Indebted Slave

Bihag:
Captive

Hayohan:
Slave for barter or to sell to Spanish.

Rank Structure:

Rajah / Batara / Sarripada ( Sanskrit root word: Sri Paduka):
All equal ranks most often called Datu.
There is no primary chief or king amongst the Visayans.

Kadatuan / Kadatuon:
Autonomous Datu (example, CiLapu Lapu believed he ruled over other Datus)

Pangulo / Kaponoan / Makaporos ng Datu:
The most respected Datus.


Bendaharra / Atubang sa Datu:
Prime Minister under Datu

Paragahin:
Major Domo / top servant of Datu

Bilango:
Datu's Enforcer / Sheriff

Warriors consisted of:
Timawas / Tumao

TAGAL:
No King
A Tribe can consist of 4 to 10 Datus which is called a Bayan (Town).
Rajah:
Paramount Datu

Datus / Maginoo / Lakan :
Same rank

Maharlikas:
Knights or Hidalgos

Timawa:
Free men

Namamahay:
Slaves who are bound by debt.

Alipin:
Slave

Gigilid:
Lowest Slave

IBANAG:

Patul:
King

Kammaranan:
Principle Chief

Maengel:
Warriors

Kaelian:
Citizen - non warrior

Biyag:
Captive

Aripan:
Slave


--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali

danjuandesiga

Don't ask where I got this photo from, because I do not remember. I was just inspired to share it to pitch in the discussion.

Daniel Arola
Fayeteville, NC

Attached Images

 

Keithley

I am studying about Fernando Keithley. He is a distant relative. I would be interested in more information about him, his unit, his death and Cornelius Smith. I am trying to learn what honors were given Fernando (Furnando) Keithley. His sister wrote that a Philippine island was named in his honor. although I have not been able to confirm this. The camp that he was guarding at an outpost was renamed Camp Keithley in his honor. I understand that there is a memorial at the Camp, although I have only heard of it.

Do you have any further information or resources of where I could read or research more about this?

I learned that Fernando Keithley (also Furnando Keithley) was attacked on the same day a datu from Mindanao was captured by the Americans. I wonder if the nightly attack was in response to that.

Furnando's was attacked at night after the moon had disappeared and the night was pitch black. One report says that the other sentries were in a tent and that they were instantly cut to pieces. Furnando gathered up all their weapons (I am trying to confirm which weapons- I suspect Remington rifles and Colt .45s) and fought off his attackers.

"A large band of Moros, armed mostly with bolos, spears, krisses and campolongs, the latter being a neavy two-handed swore several feet long, first cut the topes of the tent, which fell in on the three other members of the guard and they were quickly hacked to pieces. and Pvt. Keithley was left alone to battle the swarm of Moros in the darkness. He tried to fight his way back toward his camp, shooting and reloading and shooting again and again, also fighting with his bayonet. The fact that was an athletic young fellow and was a skilled soldier with a bayonet made the attack costly for the Moros and 22 of them were found dead at the outpost and along the trail back toward the camp. Others who were carried away by their friends died later."

He alerted the camp and died the next day of his wounds. The army camp, then known as Camp Marahui, was renamed by Order of the War Department, Camp Keithley. Later it was called Fort Keithley. This was the first Army post in the history of the US that was named for an enlisted man. He enlisted when he was 17.

Sometime when the 28th infantry was stationed at Fort Carson, Coloroado, they had a large trophy room they named Keithley Hall with a large painting of Private Keithley. Colonel Donald R. Ward, commander of the 28th said that every man was "familiar with the heroic fight put up by one of the original members of the regiment....The regiment is now one of the most famous in the Army, but few if any have surpassed the record made by Pvt. Fernando Guy Keithley, who died defending his country when the regiment was young."

This report was posted by the Editor of the National Tribune at the reunion of the 28th Infantry.

Please let me know if you have any further information or resources that I can investigate.

Keithley

I am studying about Fernando Keithley. He is a distant relative. I would be interested in more information about him, his unit, his death and Cornelius Smith. I am trying to learn what honors were given Fernando (Furnando) Keithley. His sister wrote that a Philippine island was named in his honor. although I have not been able to confirm this. The camp that he was guarding at an outpost was renamed Camp Keithley in his honor. I understand that there is a memorial at the Camp, although I have only heard of it.

Do you have any further information or resources of where I could read or research more about this?

I learned that Fernando Keithley (also Furnando Keithley) was attacked on the same day a datu from Mindanao was captured by the Americans. I wonder if the nightly attack was in response to that.

Furnando's was attacked at night after the moon had disappeared and the night was pitch black. One report says that the other sentries were in a tent and that they were instantly cut to pieces. Furnando gathered up all their weapons (I am trying to confirm which weapons- I suspect Remington rifles and Colt .45s) and fought off his attackers.

"A large band of Moros, armed mostly with bolos, spears, krisses and campolongs, the latter being a neavy two-handed swore several feet long, first cut the topes of the tent, which fell in on the three other members of the guard and they were quickly hacked to pieces. and Pvt. Keithley was left alone to battle the swarm of Moros in the darkness. He tried to fight his way back toward his camp, shooting and reloading and shooting again and again, also fighting with his bayonet. The fact that was an athletic young fellow and was a skilled soldier with a bayonet made the attack costly for the Moros and 22 of them were found dead at the outpost and along the trail back toward the camp. Others who were carried away by their friends died later."

He alerted the camp and died the next day of his wounds. The army camp, then known as Camp Marahui, was renamed by Order of the War Department, Camp Keithley. Later it was called Fort Keithley. This was the first Army post in the history of the US that was named for an enlisted man. He enlisted when he was 17.

Sometime when the 28th infantry was stationed at Fort Carson, Coloroado, they had a large trophy room they named Keithley Hall with a large painting of Private Keithley. Colonel Donald R. Ward, commander of the 28th said that every man was "familiar with the heroic fight put up by one of the original members of the regiment....The regiment is now one of the most famous in the Army, but few if any have surpassed the record made by Pvt. Fernando Guy Keithley, who died defending his country when the regiment was young."

This report was posted by the Editor of the National Tribune at the reunion of the 28th Infantry.

Please let me know if you have any further information or resources that I can investigate.